As I'm going to replace a 45 year old boiler,{which has a wasteful hot water coil}with a newer,more efficient one I have been considering electric tankless hot water heaters,which would allow me to shut off the boiler except during the coldest months or when the tenants need heat.

The house in question has 2 1/2 baths,1 kitchen,washer with currently 4 people.

This one looks good.
http://www.faucetdirect.com/index.cfm?page=product:display&productID=TEMPRA%2029&manufacturer=Stiebel%20Eltron&finish=Electric&source=googlebase&CAWELAID=79545577

However several people have suggested 2 smaller ones in series while a plumber friend says to go with a single unit.

Anyone out there familiar with these units?would appreciate your input,particularly if you have one.
As always I will be doing all the plumbing and electrical work.

I have no experience installing them, but the two houses I lived in in Japan had them, and they work great.

Just like they say, you never run out of hot water, and you save money because you are not continuously keeping hot 50 or 75 gallons of water.

Check out www.noritz.com

They are the brand in Japan that you see everywhere, and they are also available in the U.S.

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Paul S.

2001 E430, Bourdeaux Red, Oyster interior.
79,200 miles.

1973 280SE 4.5, 170,000 miles. 568 Signal Red, Black MB Tex. "The Red Baron".

The thing to watch out for in your climate is where you vent the unit, if the cold winter winds can blow down the vent it freezes the tank. Ive seen this on several occasions.

EILs work great, provided you install them close to where the heated water is needed...otherwise, you'll be paying to replace the heated water that is sitting in the pipe(s) downstream from the heater itself...

I went and insulated all the hot-water pipes from the heater to the destinations...made a BIG DIFFERENCE when it came to using the sink/faucet anywhere from 15 minutes or more after it was last used...the pre-heated-sitting-in-the-pipe water was still a bit warm from the previous useage...

At work, we installed one unit (fairly small) in the men's room, T'd the output to feed into the women's room, then changed out the faucet aeriators to restrict the flow down to 1.3gpm. That way, we'd still be able to have BOTH faucets open at the same time and still keep the water temperature at 125° as set on the unit itself.

The only concern you might run into is the mineral content of your water...if that should be a concern...then you can always install, pre-heater, a filter that is specifically designed for your filtration needs. That will help cut down on crud-buildup that would occur, much like the internal buildup you'd get with a regular waterheater.

Good luck w/the install...

I know the folks at work enjoyed, finally, having SOME hot water after so many years of crappy, tank-located-85-feet-away, tepid water...

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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
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“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

It is interesting that the Faucet Direct one they say it uses 120A then they say you need only 50A breakers, then they say you need 3 breakers?? Is it 3 phase?

The Noritz all look like gas powered. The gas ones can heat the water faster if that is a concern.

I thought about putting a timer on my electric heater, then I finally just put a relay and a switch, so I can easily turn it of when I am not here.

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1998 C230 330,000 miles (currently dead of second failed EIS, yours will fail too, turning you into the dealer's personal human cash machine)
1988 F150 144,000 miles (leaks all the colors of the rainbow)
Previous stars: 1981 Brava 210,000 miles, 1978 128 150,000 miles, 1977 B200 Van 175,000 miles, 1972 Vega (great, if rusty, car), 1972 Celica, 1986.5 Supra

Yep, 3-phase - You notice the 3-50? That indicates the need for a 3-phase breaker...I'm not sure what the formula for figuring out 3-phase current requirements, but I believe you take the total current used/required, divide that by how many phases are powering the unit and somehow you have to figure in the Voltage in these calculations....OMG...MY...Brain....is....hurting!!!

Hey, home-electricians! Help out with the calculations!!!!


Nope, the data sheet says "Eletric" only...no gas involved...

That's good if you're not at your place during long stretches of time...like days on end...but for daily useage...I don't see where the savings would come in unless it's a small tank and you're not talking about the tank being insulated too heavily...

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M. G. Burg
'10 - Dakota SXT - Daily Ride / ≈ 172.5K
.'76 - 450SLC - 107.024.12 / < .89.20 K
..'77 - 280E - 123.033.12 / > 128.20 K
...'67 - El Camino - 283ci / > 207.00 K
....'75 - Yamaha - 650XS / < 21.00 K
.....'87 - G20 Sportvan / > 206.00 K
......'85 - 4WINNS 160 I.O. / 140hp
.......'74 - Honda CT70 / Real 125
.
“I didn’t really say everything I said.”
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ~ Yogi Berra ~

No Sir,Single phase,just has 3 separate 220 units with I guess a common neutral bus.
Here...http://www.stiebel-eltron-usa.com/techdata_tempra.html

With the cost of our electric at $0.21, you are not going to gain a penny of savings with this system. It sounds nice, in theory, but electric still costs 50% more than oil............at current oil prices ($4.50/gallon).

The only way this system makes sense is if you have the tenants pay the electric. Otherwise, a new boiler with a decent tankless coil is still the way to go.

Besides, it's not at all good for a boiler to shut it down for six months............

Any natural gas in the building? That's the way to go.

No. There was gas but the former owner had it disconnected although the pipes are still in place and I can pressure test them.

I have toyed with the idea of a complete gas conversion,boiler and hot water,either tankless coil with an insulated storage tank or point of use unit/units.
I suppose I can call Keyspan/National Grip,whatever,and ask about restoring sevice to the house,which is all I need,just up to the foundation,the rest I'll do myself.

This system is great. Although ours is gas power. Costing about $28 a month in a 1000 sf house.
We threw out the old cast iron tub put in floor to ceiling tile and installed a walk in glass enclosure big enough for three. (Stop it!!) And with a ten foot ceiling we mounted a 12 inch shower head near the top. The endless supply of hot water lasts for days. OHHHHHHH that feels great!
Hey, where's my sandwich??

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Selling used Mercedes parts on Ebay...always changing...
cdplayer51 take a look!
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Definitely do it with gas if you can. It's 1/2 the price of oil and about 1/3 the price of electric.

I'd be curious as to your findings on gas boilers...........I really need to do the identical change over here. I don't typically find any gas boilers with tankless coils.

A place I rented in Texas had a tankless setup that was propane powered and it worked great. I paid the bill but it also included other things so I have no idea on the actual costs. I also know two people with Paloma tankless propane units on boats and they work very well. Why keep water hot when you are not using it? RT

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When all else fails, vote from the rooftops!
84' Mercedes Benz 300D Anthracite/black, 171K
03' Volkswagen Jetta TDI blue/black, 93K
93' Chevrolet C2500HD ExCab 6.5TD, Two-tone blue, 252K

I have 2 Paloma gas tankless and I can't say enough good about them. I have had them for 20 years and put about $25 worth of new diaphragms in each. They have brass control valves and stainless heating coils. All fittings are brass or stainless. They are as good as the day I bought them.

Tankless are not cheap but what you save in energy will more than make up the difference. The pilot lights go out from time to time but they have internal igniters and it only take 10 seconds to restart. I think the newer ones have electric pilots that start up each time you demand hot water, but I am not sure.

The only problem I ever had with them is that once the kids found out that we never ran out of hot water they would stay in the shower until I ran them out. The nice thing is that all I have to do is turn off the gas, count to ten and wait for the scream to come from the shower.

I put in a Rheem 199,000 NG BTU unit in last summer. Best plumbing thing I ever did. Can fill the 2 person whirlpool while running the washing machine and the dishwasher, and never run out of hot water.

We had an electric water heater. Now my electric bill is way down, and I haven't hardly noticed any increase in my gas bill.

The main reason I bought it is the Whirlpool bathtub takes a couple of hundred gallons of water, and the builder installed a 50 gallon electric water heater. Duh.

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Thank You!
Fred
2009 ML350
2004 SL600
2004 SL500
1996 SL600
2002 SLK32
2005 CLK320 cabrio
2003 ML350
1997 C280 Sport

Before I discovered that natural gas has just gone up 100% since last August, I was going to install a Solaia boiler as the replacement for our oil fired boiler. It is a triple pass design from Italy, and is certified to use either an oil or power gas burner. The combination of the power gas burner, instead of atmospheric, and the wet base design of the boiler makes it much more efficient. Almost all new boilers are designed for cold start, so you don't have to waste fuel keeping it warm all the time.

Another good gas boiler, though more expensive, is the Triangle Tube Prestige Solo. It is a stainless steel modulating/condensing (mod/con) unit that mounts on the wall.

Both of these systems work well with indirect DHW. A separate zone off the boiler goes to heat a highly insulated storage tank. I don't have this setup myself but supposedly its much better than a boiler coil and cheaper to run than electric. The up front cost is higher though.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma