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  #1  
Old 08-20-2008, 04:25 PM
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Russia To Freeze Military Ties With Nato

Hot off the presses folks:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315674/

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  #2  
Old 08-20-2008, 04:27 PM
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Good. Maybe now we can go back to the Cold War. At least ten we knew who and where our enemies were.
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  #3  
Old 08-20-2008, 04:36 PM
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  #4  
Old 08-20-2008, 06:36 PM
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Russia made this announcement, but realistically it was NATO that froze ties the day before when they suspended all joint military activity and announced they would be reviewing all military partnerships. I know that Canada and the US had a joint military exercise with the Russians coming up, and we both cancelled this over the weekend. I think we fired the first shot on this front, so to speak.
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  #5  
Old 08-20-2008, 07:04 PM
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Wait while we reset the clock -- 1913, 1939, or 1962 which is it?

Us and Them
(Waters, Wright) 7:40

Us, and them
And after all we're only ordinary men.
Me, and you.
God only knows it's noz what we would choose to do.
Forward he cried from the rear
and the front rank died.
And the general sat and the lines on the map
moved from side to side.
Black and blue
And who knows which is which and who is who.
Up and down.
But in the end it's only round and round.
Haven't you heard it's a battle of words
The poster bearer cried.
Listen son, said the man with the gun
There's room for you inside.

"I mean, they're not gunna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short,
sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off
lightly, 'cos I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once!
It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners
don't cost nothing do they, eh?"

Down and out
It can't be helped but there's a lot of it about.
With, without.
And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?
Out of the way, it's a busy day
I've got things on my mind.
For the want of the price of tea and a slice
The old man died.
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  #6  
Old 08-20-2008, 07:37 PM
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The politics of energy replaces ideology. Germany gets nearly 50% of its oil and natural gas from President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, they are not going to push NATO or the EU into sanctions.
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  #7  
Old 08-20-2008, 07:39 PM
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Cool, I prefer dealing with the Russians as opposed to the nut jobs in the sandbox.
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  #8  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:39 PM
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Russia will always be Russia, no country has a tyrannical history like it, from the Ivan's -> Stalin ->Putin history repeats itself.

LAKE SELIGER, Russia -- It was like the first day of summer camp at this lakeside resort, but the scrubbed young campers in T-shirts and casual clothes had more than beadwork and canoeing on their minds.

Ten thousand young commissars -- their title borrowed from the Communist Party leaders of the Soviet era -- came here to learn to be Russia's next generation of tycoons and political leaders. Equally important, they came to prepare to stamp out any challenge from opposition groups to President Vladimir Putin's government.

All were summoned by Nashi, a pro-Kremlin organization that pays homage to Putin and seeks to promote Russia's resurrection as a superpower capable of frustrating what leaders call Western "imperialism."

"In 10 years, we will have a huge network of people who share our ideology and who know that is Russia's proper place in the world," Vasily Yakemenko, the founder of the group, told reporters at the camp Tuesday.

Nashi is a foe of Other Russia -- an opposition alliance that has sponsored a series of anti-government marches in recent months -- and Nashi organizers lost few opportunities to ridicule and denounce Kremlin critics as political extremists and deviants.

In the middle of the camp, organizers set up what they called the Red Light District -- six-foot posters in which the faces of the male opposition leaders were superimposed on cartoons of female bodies in lurid poses.

Nearby, there was a poster depicting an intercontinental ballistic missile with the slogan: "Let there be sovereign democracy," a reference to the Kremlin's definition of democracy stripped of Western influence.

In a series of classes and lectures, Nashi also sought to promote clean living among its 14- to 28-year-old followers. Leaders of one Nashi project, "Our Army," encouraged young men not to dodge compulsory conscription. An Orthodox Christian wing of Nashi, founded in May, promotes "missionary activities among the younger generation."

Clad in red T-shirts, the commissars ran to classes in groups wearing name badges with electronic chips that monitored attendance. Skipping lectures was punishable by expulsion -- as was drinking alcohol, cursing and unsanctioned fraternization.

At an opening ceremony, Yakemenko railed against one hapless teenager who was overheard using an expletive.

"He wants to be a governor?" Yakemenko yelled from the stage. "He'll be a bum and die in the gutter!"

Thousands of youths cheered as he ordered the expulsion of the teen from the camp, 300 miles north of Moscow.

In talking with reporters, Yakemenko warned the West may attempt a coup during parliamentary elections in December. Nashi will help ensure that does not happen, he said.

"Though I don't expect a full-scale confrontation," Yakemenko said. "We have brought out 50,000 and even 70,000 people, while the opposition can hardly field several hundred protesters."

Yakemenko, 36, a former construction manager, founded Nashi, which means "Ours," in 2005 -- ostensibly as an anti-fascist movement aimed at reducing xenophobia and hate crimes.

The new movement replaced an earlier pro-Kremlin group, also led by Yakemenko, called Walking Together. That group became notorious for burning books and disrupting allegedly degenerate art exhibitions and performances.

Analysts said the Kremlin scrapped Walking Together because of its scandal-tainted image, and created Nashi in its place. Vladislav Surkov, the Kremlin's deputy chief of staff, is said to be the mastermind behind both groups.

Nashi has grown rapidly, sprouting branches in most of Russia's 85 regions and staging public cleanup campaigns and other civic projects. It has also organized huge street demonstrations, where tens of thousands of youngsters have congratulated Putin on his birthday or election anniversary.

But analysts say these rallies have another purpose: to warn opposition groups that any anti-Kremlin street protests will be met by much larger counter-demonstrations.

Nashi has supported the Kremlin in other ways. In April, members of the group besieged the Estonian Embassy in Moscow to protest the relocation of a Red Army memorial in the Estonian capital, Tallinn. At one point, boisterous young activists chased the ambassador from her car.

For the Nashi faithful, membership combines patriotism with self-improvement -- in a manner reminiscent of the Soviet-era Communist youth group, Komsomol.

"There is no alternatives to Nashi," said Artyom Samoilov, a sophomore student from Kursk. "It is a union of like-minded people, very much like the Komsomol."

To its critics, Nashi represents an effort by the Kremlin to emulate the old Soviet bosses, and channel the energy and enthusiasm of Russian youth to the service of the state. Nashi projects are prolific and well funded, although Yakemenko refused to elaborate on sources.

"I just don't know how much it cost," Yakemenko said about the funding of the Seliger camp. "But I'm assuring you that we did not take a single kopeck of the taxpayer's money."
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  #9  
Old 08-20-2008, 09:43 PM
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well, if anything, this is a great reason to vote for McCain....
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  #10  
Old 08-20-2008, 10:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI View Post
The politics of energy replaces ideology. Germany gets nearly 50% of its oil and natural gas from President Dmitry Medvedev and Prime Minister Vladimir Putin, they are not going to push NATO or the EU into sanctions.
Nazi Germany invaded the USSR for 2 things Lebensraum and ... (Hint -- what was Stalingrad near?). Nazi Germany went to North Africa for 1 thing -- was it to see the pyramids? Control the Saharan Camel trade?

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Old 08-20-2008, 11:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Nazi Germany invaded the USSR for 2 things Lebensraum and ... (Hint -- what was Stalingrad near?). Nazi Germany went to North Africa for 1 thing -- was it to see the pyramids? Control the Saharan Camel trade?

B
And they screwed up royally by putting to much effort into the former, and not enough into the later.

All the oil they could ever want to burn was only 4 Panzer divisions and a march accross the desert to Arabia in 1940.
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  #12  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
well, if anything, this is a great reason to vote for McCain....
He does know how to operate in a Cold War framework.
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  #13  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Hatterasguy View Post
And they screwed up royally by putting to much effort into the former, and not enough into the later.

All the oil they could ever want to burn was only 4 Panzer divisions and a march accross the desert to Arabia in 1940.
Yep.

Oh well.

B
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  #14  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:15 PM
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Such is war.


Now how can we play this situation to our advantage and turn it on Putin?
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  #15  
Old 08-20-2008, 11:30 PM
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Such is war.


Now how can we play this situation to our advantage and turn it on Putin?
Russia has plenty of energy, a large population, and plenty of lebensraum. They are very vulnerable to insurrections from ethnic populations living under Russian rule. Having bordering states with kinfolks under Russian rule across a rugged frontier and uncertain border makes Russia uneasy.

Think of Spain & Basques and then multiply that by literally dozens of ethnic minorities. Russia sees Georgia as a threat.

Also, Russia reminds everybody in Europe where their energy comes from -- the Rodina.

B

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