I guess the airplane didn't like the water.

[WVOtoGO]

It’s official. I can now say that I’ve seen it all, when it comes to bizarre plane crashs.

I’ve seen a few crashes first hand, and been to the site of many. But never, have I seen anything like this.

Being Citation operators, we got a real kick out of this one.

Landing down wind was pretty stupid. But what happens next (and exactly how) is as the title reads: "You won't believe what happens".


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80grd2CrTI

[Fulcrum525]

Ok...... I've heard of gasoline engines "Dieseling" and running without spark plugs but a jet engine spooling up on its own? Someone call a priest, that thing is possessed!


Does it have some sort of electronically linked throttle and short caused it to throttle up?

[WVOtoGO]

Originally Posted by Fulcrum525

Someone call a priest, that thing is possessed!


Does it have some sort of electronically linked throttle and short caused it to throttle up?

It sure acted like it !!

It was dead. It didn't throttle up from idle. It restarted itself.

We’re figuring the crew had the Auto Relight System armed as they should.
The crew had probably pushed the power levers forward once they noticed they couldn’t stop on the runway. (But too late.)
The massive water ingestion on “slash down” flamed out the engines.
They left them at some power setting above idle when evacuating. (Full power on the one engine would have pushed it up the beach. Idle may not have moved it at all. Don't know of any boat tests with Citations, off hand.)
They didn’t kill the master power when evacuating.
The auto relight system (with electric starter assist) recognized the flame-out without engine shut down.
The #1 engine may have been too “flooded” to relight.
The #2 engine obviously wasn’t.

Personally – As bizarre as the circumstances are. We think it says a lot about Cessna aircraft and the design of the engine systems.

Citations Rule !! Even on their own !!

[davestlouis]

All the more reason not to fly...I'm phobic about it and every time I see a youtube video like this I just about lose it. I used to be just fine flying, but the past 10 years or so, just can't do it. I worked in a funeral home in the late 80's and one of the passengers from that Pan Am flight over Lockerbie Scotland came through, in a not-so-pretty condition, I think that planted the seed with me that some flights end violently and I'd prefer to not be on that flight.

[WVOtoGO]

Originally Posted by davestlouis

All the more reason not to fly...I'm phobic about it and every time I see a youtube video like this I just about lose it. I used to be just fine flying, but the past 10 years or so, just can't do it. I worked in a funeral home in the late 80's and one of the passengers from that Pan Am flight over Lockerbie Scotland came through, in a not-so-pretty condition, I think that planted the seed with me that some flights end violently and I'd prefer to not be on that flight.

Well….I guess you should stay away from flying then, if that’s how you feel.
I respect those who don’t like it. I don’t try to push it on anyone who is against it. Especially those with a true phobia.

In defense of flight, however. I will state that for every aircraft crash that seems to steer people away from it. There are a few thousand automobile crashes that for some reason or another, have little effect on steering people away from driving. Something I never really could understand.

i.e. Some automobile trips end violently as well.

[Palangi]

Where was that?? American voices, but the plane and the setting look like somewhere in Europe.

[mgburg]

Originally Posted by davestlouis

All the more reason not to fly...I'm phobic about it and every time I see a youtube video like this I just about lose it. I used to be just fine flying, but the past 10 years or so, just can't do it. I worked in a funeral home in the late 80's and one of the passengers from that Pan Am flight over Lockerbie Scotland came through, in a not-so-pretty condition, I think that planted the seed with me that some flights end violently and I'd prefer to not be on that flight.

The human body protects its owner in many ways...

A few years back, I was in a head-on...the other guy and I were probably going about 45 mph each...

I didn't feel anything and I don't recall the actual impact...

I've read that the most physically perfect body can transfer nerve impulses from the extremeties to the brain at 95mph...so it goes that if you're traveling anything above 95.0001 mph, you're not going to feel anything...that's just for starters...

Once that nerve impulse reaches the brain...the brain has to process the impulse and determine what course of action is appropriate...once that's decided, THEN the person can react...

I don't think that in an airplane, flying/crashing at well over 95.0001 mph is going to amount to a whole lotta' OUCH...

Besides...the other part of the human body that's amazing is that when it's "overloaded" with impulses from many parts...it "shuts down" the nerve train - I think you might be able to equate that to shock...the body is telling the owner..."Hey, dude...you really don't want to know what's going on out there...I'm numbing you up for your sake..."

That might explain some of those old news-reel shots of people on fire just walking around like nothing is happening....shock...that's it...the body says "I'm shutting down the outside...go to sleep..."

I look at it this way...you can slip and crack your head on a table or fall from a 20-story building...it's the sudden stop that's the problem...and when it's your time...there's nothing you or the guy next to you can do to stop it from happening...

Live life and enjoy it...it's all going to end...some time....

[davestlouis]

I wonder if I would do better if I knew how to fly a plane? I have thought about taking some lessons just to have a better understanding of what's going on up there. It embarrasses me a little to be scared of something like flying. My parents fly a bunch, and they are both fatalistic about it...if it's their time, it's their time. My dad's bigger issue is that he can't sit still for very long without getting leg pain, so he has to get up and move every hour or so, and he's worried about deep vein thrombosis from sitting still too long. He's 72 though, so all things considered, he's doing OK.

[cscmc1]

I saw that video a year or two ago... crazy. I'd have been steering WELL clear of the plane of rotation when that engine re-lit. Bizarre.

[Kuan]

That's an airfoil, not a hydrofoil.

[cscmc1]

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

I'm a believer in Cessna aircraft as well, however the following got my attention. I understand that if ONE or TWO birds are sucked into a jet engine, chances are the jet engine won't stall, but if a FLOCK of birds are ingested, especially on takeoff, you might be in for a steep vertical descent..... any studies on the subject of flocks of birds ingested into jet aircraft engines on takeoff?

http://propilotnews.com/2008/03/five-perish-in-cessna-citation-crash-in.html


this got me thinking that perhaps a strong turboprop like a Beech King Air might be a safer aircraft concerning birds...or could it's engines die if a flock of birds were encountered?

Bird strikes are very common... lots of info out there in what they can do. Maybe WVO knows of some specific studies, but I'll bet dollars to donuts a Google search on the topic will keep you busy for hours.

[WVOtoGO]

Originally Posted by HuskyMan

I'm a believer in Cessna aircraft as well, however the following got my attention. I understand that if ONE or TWO birds are sucked into a jet engine, chances are the jet engine won't stall, but if a FLOCK of birds are ingested, especially on takeoff, you might be in for a steep vertical descent..... any studies on the subject of flocks of birds ingested into jet aircraft engines on takeoff?

http://propilotnews.com/2008/03/five-perish-in-cessna-citation-crash-in.html


this got me thinking that perhaps a strong turboprop like a Beech King Air might be a safer aircraft concerning birds...or could it's engines die if a flock of birds were encountered?

ONE or TWO birds that are how big??? And what engine are they going into?

Rgardless - I’ll take 50 sparrows over one vulture or a goose, any day.

With the smaller intakes, turbo-prop aircraft tend to be less susceptible to flameouts from birds than turbo-jet and/or turbo-fan engines. (i.e. the odds of catching a bird or flock of birds is better with a bigger net.) Turbine and/or piston driven propellers can certainly take out a bird with greater ease and less potential damage than a turbine fan blade can.

So with that, I’d say sure. Maybe you’d be better off in a KingAir. But bird strikes, though somewhat common (I’ve certainly had my share.), are like car wrecks. No two are ever the same. There are far too many factors involved to say that one of two comparable aircraft is better/safer than the other.
The three biggest issues with bird strikes are:
1. How big is the bird that’s going to hit you?
2. Where is it going to hit you?
3. How many of its friends is it bringing to the party?

I’ve hit small birds in a flock that went through the turbine engines of one of our Citation IIIs, and didn’t leave hardly a mark. Sucked up and spit out.
I’ve hit an even smaller bird that came over the prop and through the wind screen of the Decathlon (8KCAB) and left a bruise on my chest as if I took a fastball to the ribs.
I went through about 30 seagulls on take off in a C-172. I walked away, but the aircraft was totaled.
DJ took a duck one night in a heli that all but broke both of her legs.
All of these were somewhat minor.
I took a vulture directly through the radome (nose) of a 757. Took out the radar, but we were all fine.
Then again…I knew an IP down at Randolph AFB that took a vulture through the windscreen of a T-37 that left him decapitated with his head in his lap. (The student freaked out a bit, as I recall.)
Here’s two shots of what a goose can do to a twin Beech. Ouch. Let’s hope he saw it coming and ducked (no pun…).

So to say one aircraft may be better or safer than another when it comes to taking on birds is not really fair to any aircraft. It’s like saying one person is better at taking the blow from a hammer than some other person is. Well…that all depends on the size of the hammer and where they’re being hit with it, doesn’t it?

As for strike studies. I’ve read a few. But most are based on fixed scenarios. Sorry, but when it comes to real world bird strikes…nothing is fixed.