Nissan GT-R... Fake Claims??? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

iwrock · #1 10-01-2008, 05:48 PM

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/motoring-news/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/

Porsche took them on, to try and find out if the claims are really true.

Finally, some truth!

jlomon · #2 10-01-2008, 07:05 PM

Car & Driver magazine covered this same inconsistency in a recent issue. At that point they had tested 5 different GT-Rs and two different performance groups had emerged. Some of the faster cars were pre-production examples so there was speculation that different engine mapping software was producing different results (ie more power) and that production examples had less power. However, the 5th vehicle they tested had similar performance to the first two pre-production cars. There was also speculation that the GT-R's engine, which is hand-built, may not have the same degree of consistentcy as line-built engines.

I've seen serveral dyno tests on this car, all of them done with a chassis dyno instead of an engine dyno. Assuming driveline losses in the area of 15-20% for an AWD car, these tests have produced crank horsepower ratings from as low as around 520hp to as high as 570hp. Nissan claims 480hp. This would suggest that Nissan is dramatically underrating the power output - another GT-R tradition going back to the first generation car which supposedly only made 276hp but was widely speculated to be making over 400.

ImBroke · #3 10-01-2008, 07:40 PM

Just like the muscle car days.. underrating hp for ins reasons.

Ara T. · #4 10-01-2008, 08:26 PM

Semi-slick racing style tires? Lol! Porsche needs to spend more time engineering faster cars and less time crying like a child with PR. Maybe if they didn't insist on holding the Cayman back to preserve the 911s place in the lineup they wouldn't have this problem.

Hatterasguy · #5 10-01-2008, 09:17 PM

I'd still rather have a GT2.

jlomon · #6 10-01-2008, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ImBroke

Just like the muscle car days.. underrating hp for ins reasons.

No doubt. I watched an episode of "American Muscle Car" a couple of years ago when they took 5 of the most famous engines from the muscle car era and ran them on engine dynos to see what kind of power they really put out. These were brand new engines assembled specifically for this task to the exact production specs, although they weren't balanced or blueprinted. The one that really stood out in my mind was the 426 Hemi, which Chrysler rated at 425 hp (gross). It put out 805. Nissan is hardly the first company to do this.

Gurkha · #7 10-02-2008, 04:30 AM

Porsche needs to go back to their roots, raw performance and on the edge handling and not family cars and overpriced SUVs and yes, they should stop being a cry baby, even a Evo thrashes them handsomely, I posted a youtube vid on the vid section of a Evo versus a GTR 993 Porsche.

#8 10-02-2008, 07:19 AM

Porsche needs to give in and figure out that a rear engine flat 6 won't cut it anymore.

They should move to a mid-engine flat 6 and only offer a nonturbo engine as their low-end entry level model.

Gurkha · #9 10-02-2008, 07:25 AM

Absolutely correct, high time they realize there is nothing more to extract from the flat 6.

Hatterasguy · #10 10-02-2008, 09:27 AM

Its about more than numbers.

Lots of cars are faster than Ferrari's to, yet Ferrari still has a what 3 year waiting list on the 430. Nissan eat your heart out.

Gurkha · #11 10-02-2008, 09:34 AM

Sports car are all about character and stirring the soul, anyone who has driven a Skyline GTR will know what I mean and if this one comes close to that, its good enough for me. Porsche is more on marketing and sanitizing the original concept of the 911 which was a high powered hairy car that rewarded good drivers with excellent results, the new ones have deviated from that philosophy and look more like a product from the accounting department rather than engineering.

Hatterasguy · #12 10-02-2008, 09:38 AM

No I don't think so. The 911 GT3 is very similer to my friends 1967 911. Its just a ton more powerfull, has better brakes, and is safer.

The problem with these AWD GT cars is they are heavy.

I still think the NSX, and the old RX7/Cosmo are some of the best performance cars ever to come from Asia. Can't forget about the Miata either.

Gurkha · #13 10-02-2008, 09:42 AM

The word safer is reserved for Camry and other mom and pop sedans, not for Porsche......btw, Skyline GTR was AWD and it never felt heavy.

Hatterasguy · #14 10-02-2008, 09:53 AM

The new ones are a lot safer, what are you joking? You can roll them and not kill yourself, they also have crumple zones and air bags. The 67 is a death trap. The GT3 RS has a roll cage.

jlomon · #15 10-02-2008, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurkha

Sports car are all about character and stirring the soul.

This is precisely why Porsche will never change the formula on the 911 - because it has tremendous visual character and emotional pull pased on brand identity. People don't buy a 911 because it is the best sports car dollar for dollar. They buy a 911 because they want to own a piece of that tradition. They want to be part of a legacy. People don't buy a sports car to drive it at the limit any more than people buy SUVs to go off-road with them. They buy a 911 because of the associations with the past, even if those associations are not part of the present car.

Porsche has diluted the formula to make it more cost effective - air-cooled engines are long gone. And they've sanitized the handling. But the shape and the rear-engine/flat 6 layout will never ever change. It will kill the company. They might make a better car, but once the iconic 911 is gone all it does is invite people to buy something else that stirs their soul because of what it means to them, not because of what it can do on the track.