http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/opinion/08friedman.html?th&emc=th

excerpt:

Palin’s Kind of Patriotism
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN

Criticizing Sarah Palin is truly shooting fish in a barrel. But given the huge attention she is getting, you can’t just ignore what she has to say. And there was one thing she said in the debate with Joe Biden that really sticks in my craw. It was when she turned to Biden and declared: “You said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that’s not patriotic.”

What an awful statement. Palin defended the government’s $700 billion rescue plan. She defended the surge in Iraq, where her own son is now serving. She defended sending more troops to Afghanistan. And yet, at the same time, she declared that Americans who pay their fair share of taxes to support all those government-led endeavors should not be considered patriotic.

I only wish she had been asked: “Governor Palin, if paying taxes is not considered patriotic in your neighborhood, who is going to pay for the body armor that will protect your son in Iraq? Who is going to pay for the bailout you endorsed? If it isn’t from tax revenues, there are only two ways to pay for those big projects — printing more money or borrowing more money. Do you think borrowing money from China is more patriotic than raising it in taxes from Americans?” That is not putting America first. That is selling America first.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

So.... two wrongs do make a right? I think it's un-American to be patriotic, assuming what we're told is patriotic these days.
This guy's an idiot, and his parents were idiots, too. Taxes don't get spent on anything but paying the people who collect them, to collect them. 30% is ridiculous, especially in the "free world". This moron advocates socialism upon socialism, and then calls it patriotic? Someone should tell Dr. Douchebag, George Washington supported the Whiskey Rebellion and none of the people who died to give him the "right" to print such BS never paid an income tax.

But what do you really think?

I don't like paying for taxes either but if people really think we should be waging Trillion Dollar war and other fun things like establishing a base on the moon and Mars, those funds have to come from somewhere and bake sales ain't going to do it.

But who am I kidding? Modern Americans want everything but don't want to pay for it. Witness debt as far as the eye can see.

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1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

$780Bn says the brief days of a free market are gone and that might makes right.

I had no idea our armed forces fight for free and Lockheed Martin just gives away planes to the Air Force.


You have a funny definition of supporting the Whiskey Rebellion. I guess declaring martial law and rounding up an army to crush the rebels is support.

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1984 300TD

[QUOTE=cmac2012;1988345]http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/08/opinion/08friedman.html?th&emc=th

Palin’s Kind of Patriotism
It was when she turned to Biden and declared: “You said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that’s not patriotic.”QUOTE]

GOP: Tell the middle class what they want to hear, give the upper class
what they want.

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cult plus time equals religion

I have no problem paying taxes. I do have a problem with folks who arbitrarily suggest that folks above a certain income should surrender a significantly higher percentage of their income to pay "their share." And for the record, I am nowhere near the definition of "rich" that's being bandied about. But when the day comes when I can finally retire and I cash out my IRA, I will be mightily pissed if the Joe Bidens of the world decide that I am "rich" and dictate, by law, that it's only "patriotic" that I be placed in that higher tax bracket. I will have saved my whole life, and lived BELOW my means in order to do so; the prospect of paying out even more in taxes to carry the load of those who have made bad financial decisions their whole lives gets me kinda cranky.

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1992 300D 2.5T
1980 Euro 300D (sadly, sold)
1998 Jetta TDI, 132K "Rudy"
1974 Triumph TR6
1999 Saab 9-5 wagon (wife's)

x2

__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

Biden is a doofus; I pay more than my share of taxes - I'm a business owner. We're taxed from so many different ways it makes my head spin. Using patriotism to enable these powerful boneheads to screw over more American citizens pisses me off. If those turds in Washington want more money, then I suggest they do what all of us citizens do and watch our f'n spending. They don't need more taxes in DC, they need to control their spending and get rid of the dead weight that's keeping us in debt. I'm willing to pay to live in the US, and I pay a pile a year, but to say that my acceptance of an increase in taxes would be "patriotic" just proves that the politicians don't have a clue about crap.

BTW - Finding the definition of "doofus" in Obama and Biden is like shooting fish in a barrel. Want to pay more taxes? Want to see higher unemployment? Elect those idiots, because when the taxes for my business go up significantly, I'll be firing an employee or two and do more with less. The company you work for may have the same plans for you.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

I heard the same wolf cries in '92. "If Clinton gets elected, watch your wallet!" That's a quote from a secretary in a university dept, to me, a student.

I watched my wallet. I saw us go from a rather bad recession in the early nineties (when fortunately I was in school and not looking for a job) to things opening wide up.

I watched my wallet get a whole lot fatter. Businesses sold more stuff. Are you seriously saying that if your taxes go up a bit but your sales explode, that you are going to need to fire employees?

Money at the bottom trickles up. If lots of people have money to spend, it helps all businesses, but helps those most who make something that someone wants. If your business goes down while the economy improves, I cannot accept that higher taxes are a cause. It's probably you.

Even the God-King Reagan said the income taxes are spent before one cent goes towards services.
As far as GW, he had a distillery, and there seem to be conflicting numbers of how much he produced and how much tax he paid...

I was past my student days when Clinton was elected, but I watched my wallet too. I was out earning a living and my wallet got thinner. You probably didn't have to experience this and are apparently unaware of it, but one of Clinton's first deeds was to successfully push through the largest tax increase in our history. And that wasn't even good enough for him --- it was made retroactive to the beginning of the year. Yeah, I remember it. I remember going down to my HR dept to have them jack up my payroll tax deductions so I wouldn't get hit with fine at the end of the year, in addtion to paying the higher taxes.

I can only shudder to think what would've happened if Clinton was successful in his other passionate endeavor: socialized healthcare.

If what happens in Nov. is what looks like is going to happen, you'll be watching your wallet again.

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2002 E320 4-Matic
2008 Subaru Outback
2009 Subaru Forester

If sales explode, my taxes will explode. I don't mind paying more taxes as long as the proportion stays the same or less. A government increase in the proportion of taxes that I pay mean I better have more sales to pay for that increase in taxes - if the economy slides because everyone is paying more taxes, then I won't have that increase in sales and I'll lay off an employee or two. I don't care what you learned in college (I went too, btw); in the real world as a business owner, if the government cuts my profit so they can have a larger slice of the pie and I don't have an increase in sales to cover it, my employees and myself will feel it - difference is, I own the company so I can only be out of a job when it closes. My eleven employees cannot say the same. If the government lowers my taxes and therefore the company has more money, I'll try to expand my business by investing more into it - thereby having a need to hire more people.

Are you seriously saying that if my taxes go up and my sales go down because people aren't spending, that it's my fault I'm going out of business and laying off employees? I have eleven people depending on me to open my doors in the morning and make enough money to pay them; they, in turn, have families who depend on them. Increase taxes on businesses and people get hurt; it's simple.

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

No one benifits from higher taxes, except the government.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

First of all the artical is total bull *****. palin didn't say paying taxes is non-patriotic, she's saying being asked to pay higher than fair taxes is unpatriotic. Secondly, posting this type of cut and paste ***** is trolling. (as has been pointed out to me)

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1993 300E 2.8 185k miles
2006 Mustang Convertible 4.0 Eaton Supercharged