Vatican above the law - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

LaRondo · #1 01-02-2009, 11:10 PM

The Vatican City State, the world's smallest sovereign state, has decided to divorce itself from Italian law.

Vatican legal experts say there are too many laws in Italian civil and criminal codes, and that they frequently conflict with Church principles.
With effect from New Year's Day, the Pope has decided that the Vatican will no longer automatically adopt laws passed by the Italian parliament.

All Italian laws will be examined one by one before they are adopted.
Under the Lateran treaties signed exactly 80 years ago between Italy and the Pope, and the Italian Parliamentary system, Italian laws were applied automatically.

Government confession
A senior Vatican Canon lawyer, Monsignor Jose Maria Serrano Ruiz, has gone on record as saying that Italian laws are too many, too unstable and too often conflict with the moral teachings of the Catholic Church.

The reaction from the Italian government has been that from a technical point of view, the Vatican may well be right.

An Italian government minister admitted Italian laws are often badly written and are sometimes difficult to understand.
An Italian parliamentary commission is at present working out how to delete tens of thousands of obsolete laws from Italy's civil code.

The Vatican has also decided to scrutinise international treaties before deciding whether or not to adhere to them.

It has recently refused to approve a United Nations declaration decriminalising homosexuality.

The wording went too far, Vatican officials said, in placing different sexual orientations on the same level.

Some legal observers believe that the Vatican is simply trying to assert its legal independence in cases involving for example, civil unions, divorce, living wills, or euthanasia.
If Italy were to legalise same sex marriages or euthanasia, for example, the Vatican would now be able to refuse to recognise that.

The Clk Man · #2 01-02-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LaRondo

The Vatican City State, the world's smallest sovereign state, has decided to divorce itself from Italian law.

Vatican legal experts say there are too many laws in Italian civil and criminal codes, and that they frequently conflict with Church principles.
With effect from New Year's Day, the Pope has decided that the Vatican will no longer automatically adopt laws passed by the Italian parliament.

All Italian laws will be examined one by one before they are adopted.
Under the Lateran treaties signed exactly 80 years ago between Italy and the Pope, and the Italian Parliamentary system, Italian laws were applied automatically.

Government confession
A senior Vatican Canon lawyer, Monsignor Jose Maria Serrano Ruiz, has gone on record as saying that Italian laws are too many, too unstable and too often conflict with the moral teachings of the Catholic Church.

The reaction from the Italian government has been that from a technical point of view, the Vatican may well be right.

An Italian government minister admitted Italian laws are often badly written and are sometimes difficult to understand.
An Italian parliamentary commission is at present working out how to delete tens of thousands of obsolete laws from Italy's civil code.

The Vatican has also decided to scrutinise international treaties before deciding whether or not to adhere to them.

It has recently refused to approve a United Nations declaration decriminalising homosexuality.

The wording went too far, Vatican officials said, in placing different sexual orientations on the same level.

Some legal observers believe that the Vatican is simply trying to assert its legal independence in cases involving for example, civil unions, divorce, living wills, or euthanasia.
If Italy were to legalise same sex marriages or euthanasia, for example, the Vatican would now be able to refuse to recognise that.

I heard that Michael Jackson is the New Pope.

kerry · #3 01-02-2009, 11:26 PM

I wonder how laws are made within the Vatican itself? Do Vatican laws have any standings in other jurisdictions?

kerry · #4 01-02-2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Clk Man

I heard that Michael Jackson is the New Pope.

A lot of drag queens would like dressing up like the Pope. Doesn't he have a penchant for bright red shoes?

The Clk Man · #5 01-03-2009, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

A lot of drag queens would like dressing up like the Pope. Doesn't he have a penchant for bright red shoes?

Yep, he also has a penchant for fancy hats and Libarachi type robes don't you think?

Botnst · #6 01-03-2009, 08:46 AM

IIRC, most Italians are above the law. They resent having an Austrian go public.

davidmash · #7 03-13-2010, 08:22 PM

Seems an appropriate thread to reawaken. It would appear that the Vatican thinks it is above the law but me thinks the walls may be showing a few cracks.

Vatican officials defend pope on abuse

strelnik · #8 03-13-2010, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

Seems an appropriate thread to reawaken. It would appear that the Vatican thinks it is above the law but me thinks the walls may be showing a few cracks.

Vatican officials defend pope on abuse

The Vatican is not above the law. It, as a sovereign state, has to decide which laws it will honor in its own territory, just like any other country.

The same is true with us. Let's say you went to a country where anyone can grow marijuana and it's legal in all forms. You can smoke whatever you want there, but if you bring some here or return to the US while still high, you might face legal problems at the border.

To tell the truth, I am not sure if all clerics who work at the Vatican adopt Vatican citizenship, dual citizenship or maintain their birth country citizenship. I don't know if anyone else here knows that either FOR SURE, so all we're doing is speculating.

I think it might also depend on which international treaties it has signed.

davidmash · #9 03-13-2010, 08:55 PM

I said they seem to think they are, not that they are. Catholic clergy do not carry diplomatic immunity so any crimes they commit are punishable by the laws in which they reside.

strelnik · #10 03-13-2010, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davidmash

I said they seem to think they are, not that they are. Catholic clergy do not carry diplomatic immunity so any crimes they commit are punishable by the laws in which they reside.

Absolutely! Unfortunately, clergy, like certain other groups, seem to have leeway granted them which us poor commoners do not receive.

This informal deference should be removed.

No more special detox for paris Hilton, or any abusing priest, or crooked politician...yes, I am dreaming, it must be the meds.

Chas H · #11 03-13-2010, 09:37 PM

Detox for Hilton is hardly the same as a mulligan for a pedophile priest.

strelnik · #12 03-13-2010, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

Detox for Hilton is hardly the same as a mulligan for a pedophile priest.

Agreed. The point is, no matter how small, you do the time for the crime.

Chas H · #13 03-13-2010, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by strelnik

Agreed. The point is, no matter how small, you do the time for the crime.

Hilton did spend 23 days in jail.

strelnik · #14 03-14-2010, 08:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chas H

Hilton did spend 23 days in jail.

If you'd done the same crime, how much time would you spend?

Millionaire Phil Specter killed a 20 year old woman in 2003, got tried in 2008, convicted and still hasn't spent a day in jail.

okyoureabeast · #15 03-14-2010, 10:48 AM

Last I checked the Vatican is the last remaining vestige of the papal states. It is its own country and can do whatever the heck it pleases.

Kind if like Andorra, San Marino, Sea Land, etc.