Compact/Subcompact Pistols
 

I recently re-enlisted in the Navy Reserve and got a re-enlistment bonus. While of course I'm spending some of that fixing up my fleet of junkers, I decided to treat myself to a new handgun. I currently have a Ruger Blackhawk in .45 Colt, which I'll be keeping, and would like to get something a bit smaller and self-loading. I don't have a CCW at present, but would like something compatible with concealment in case I do get one. I've been thinking about Glock 36, 30, and 23, or possibly something in the 1911 family. I'm open to other manufacturers as well. I like .45 ACP and .40 S&W. BTW, I have very small hands, but am not recoil shy at all.

Supposedly, Sportsmen's Warehouse in Reno has a "try before you buy" indoor range, but I haven't verified this.

What do you guys recommend?

Get a short-barreled, five shot revolver. Leave it loaded with the hammer down on an empty cylinder. It's compact, handy, and you never have to worry about spring compression jamming.

It's a belly gun, not a long-range shooter. You don't have to be a marksman, just willing.

I think all the new revolvers are drop safe so they dont have to carried on an empty chamber

Jutst go ahead and say it: Bots, you're an old fart and your guns are old fart guns. ;)

I think it's beddy-bye time. Gotta go crawl into my Depends for the night.

In my opinion you can't beat a 1911....... but this is a damn damn damn neat little gun.

http://www.gunblast.com/images/Tauru...e/DSC01830.jpg

Its called "The Judge." My buddy has one.... as will I very soon.

One small point about the Glocks is that although they are often referred to as double action, they are actually single action. Glock calls them "safe action". I think they are a little overrated. It really depends on what you need it for. In most situations the average person is likely to encounter pepper spray would be more useful. Revolvers are nice but have a minimum size. A major consideration is the ammo you want to carry. I wouldn't want anything less than a +P .38. There are technically better cals but you have to consider the cost of target ammo. .357 is nice since you can practice with .38. You can also get revolvers that take auto ammo with half moon clips. So you can get a .45 ACP or .40 SW revolver. Also do you want a grip laser? That would be nice... Also depends how small you want it to be.

This one looks pretty nice: http://www.taurususa.com/products/product-details.cfm?id=253&category=Revolver

I never heard of .17 HMR and .17 HM2 but Taurus makes a bunch of revolvers for that also.

That's a cool little gun! Here's an amusing write up on it; I like the author a lot!
http://www.gunblast.com/Taurus-Judge.htm

check it out
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXLqCUPTAfM

For me, that's a little long and heavy to be interesting. The article doesn't mention it but I'll bet the muzzle blast is headachie. Most people practice with good ear protection (as they should) but doing so doesn't inform the buyer of a useful fact.

BTW, a load noise in a defensive weapon is usually a good thing. Few things will get official notice faster than loud gunfire.

I disagree with this guy on the venomous snake thing. I have spent probably half my life in the woods (the first half!) and lived in snake country for most of it. From Michigan to Wyoming to the Gulf Coast to South America. IMO a man away from home who shoots snakes is a small man. An ignorant man. I don't even kill them around the house, though I do understand why folks with small children kill them. I did it when my kids were too small to understand them.

B

IMHO I hate little pistols with big caliber's. My friend has a little Kal Tec .38 which is a junk gun, and its to small IMHO the .38 round overpowers it. Lots of kick. I have big hands I have to watch the slide to or it will bite. It also came in a .32 which IMHO would have been a better round for that little pistol.

For a semi auto I would go with something slightly bigger, like a Walther PPK in 9mm. Or something from Sig or H&K. Or a nice S&W wheel gun in .32, those are expensive but they are damn nice.

It doesn't matter what you shoot, as long as it hits it will do the job.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-aroWUQuPtU&feature=channel

Here is my friends CC gun, it doesn't have a safety either, just a long pull. The reviewer likes it but I don't.

Kahr PM40 is my choice for concealed carry with the Kel-tec P32 as a back up. The Kahr is the smallest .40 made and I like how it shoots

Have you ever compared the Kel-Tec to the Seecamp?

Mauser HSK in .32
Rossi 4 inch revolver in .38
MA1911 in Dan Wesson mode

I've survived a bite, and had a friend in high school that did not, from a Diamond Back. If I see a poisonous/threatening snake in an area that I plan on inhabiting or returning to I'll kill it every time. If this makes me small and ignorant I guess I have to accept that. I'd hazard a guess that being rushed to a hospital for anti-venom and loosing a friend in the process might alter your outlook.

Guns are why the US has so much crime, they should be banned like in Europe.

Why do you need hand guns, planning on something? :eek: :confused:

Only Jack Bauer needs a gun.

Your assumption that I've never been envenomed by a snake is correct, though I have been bitten by a cottonmouth. I was just freaking lucky.

You are wrong in your assumption that I have no friend who have been bitten. In my lifetime I have had 2 close friends severely bitten, also by cottonmouths. Both of them survived though one suffered permanent nerve damage to his hand and lost a lot of tissue. One of those guys is a physician and the other is a field biologist. Neither of them goes around killing venomous snakes and they feel about it much as I do.

I know people who have been maimed and a couple who were killed in traffic accidents. I have yet to shoot a car.

B

You're joking, right?

I want to buy a Glock.....




20 days, and I will have the ability to.

Woo Hoo...Do it before they ban them!!!........:2guns:

I have small hands. I have an old (1969) PPK in .380 and it fits just right. It has a natural point of aim for me and returns right to it after firing. At 7-25 yards it is very accurate. Bought it used a long time ago and it was expensive then.

And when "they" illegally use the instant-check to find that you own one that is now banned, what do you do?

I have never fired the Seecamp, but I know the Kel-Tec is a lot more affordable.

That said, from my own experience I would hesitate to buy a Kel-tec if I didn't have the manufacturer within driving distance from me. I had a problem with stove pipe ejection issues on the gun. Not uncommon with the Kel-tec. I took it to the manufacturer where they took it to the back for 15 minutes to fluff and buff the gun. When they were done they tested it with several different loads. It preformed flawlessly and I haven't had a problem with it since. Great customer service, if you're close to them.

Watch this and tell me how well the gun ban in Europe is working: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTq2NEUlhDE

IMHO, nothing is better for the money. Nothing fancy, very utilitarian, very dependable.

My primary weapon is a .40 Glock 22 with a Laser Max and night sights.

All of my handguns are loaded with hollow points and there's one in the chamber ready to go :D

Man, I really want one now.




Although, a shotgun is calling my name.

I thought you were a gun guy?........:confused:

This should be inspirational for ya.........A tiny Chinee MS member turned me onto this....:D;):D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izJGinb6lFA Love it!!!...Thanks Curtis.......:D

No need for confusion. I like shooting as much as yourself, but I am wary.

Still, the question remains. If the government declares all of your weapons illegal, what do you do?

This is really two questions. What do you do in the case of such a declaration, and what do you do when they are at your door?

Answer 1 Hide them and hope the NRA/armed uprising fixes the issue. The Consitution does have a clause for this, thankfully. This country was founded by people who got fed up with the biggest most powerfull empire in the world at that time...and kicked their ass.

Answer 2 Empty a clip of 7.62 NATO rounds through the door.

http://www.saveourguns.com/georgewashington002.jpg

Shoot to kill!!!..........:mad:

CZ 75B comes in 9mm and .40s&w, black parkerized, satin nickel, all stainless. Ergonomically the best out there. Accuracy out of the box A+.

http://www.ponyexpress.net/~clipse/mypics/IM000941.jpg

:D
CZ's...are sweet...........:D

CZ P-01, 9mm. Compact version of the 75B, aircraft aluminum, 1.7lbs NATO approved.

http://lundestudio.com/photos/cz-p01...-left-full.jpg

And, you don't have to police your brass either.


signed,
Wheelgun lover


PS: Current revolvers are all transfer bar systems. Carry one under the hammer without worry.

You bet ! :cool::D

Glocks are for plastic geeks ... :(

Nice.....:D...

S&W 625 JM, .45 ACP ... moonclips!

http://www.smith-wesson.com/wcsstore...0936_large.jpg

There is also the CZ 75D PCR. Specs are very similar to the P-01.

For more info: www.czusa.com

http://www.czub.cz/get_img.php?img=i....jpg&width=450

I am not a big gun person, but I have always heard that the main reason many of our police carry a Glock is due to the light weight compaired to an all steel unit.

It has to do with having to lug it around all day, and if you carry two or three even the hideout ones get heavy. Glocks are a high quality product, but it is the light weight that is their real advantage to the user (or so I have been told).

Also: If the weapon is alum. and the barrel is steel will the barrel ever seperate from the body? I mean, CZ makes some quality stuff, but will it last for years and years like, say, a Walther?

I think I am posting far more questions than answers here.

i have a 1917 s&w in the .45 acp with full and half moon clips.the full moon clips are the ultimate speed loader.and you don't have to worry about stray brass,it's locked into the clip.they are remaking the 1917 but at over 1000 dollars i'll stick with my old reliable.it has the smoothest action of any gun i have ever shot.they sure knew how to make em back then.

I would take a look at a Sig Sauer P239 which is relatively compact and flat and is available in .40.

The guns pictured above are nice, but not for concealed carry IMHO. I don't want that beaver tail digging into me or upholstry, depending on where I carry it. The beaver tail is just something to also snag my clothing as it's being drawn. You wont't find that on the Kahr PM40, Kel-tec, or the Glock I mentioned above.

The other thing I really like about the guns I mentioned (and what made Glock so popular a while after it was introduced) was the DAO trigger which makes every trigger pull the same, as opossed to SA/DA like many other quality guns. Having a DAO trigger has been mandated by many, but certainly not all, law enforcement agencies as part of a safety policy.

For someone looking for their first gun for concealed carry, I stick by my initial recommendations

The subcompact .45 G36 and 30 are pretty much the same size as the compact .40 G23. More rounds for you with the .40, but since you're a wheelgunner I'm guessing you're not firepower-crazy so its all good. I find the .45 kicks easier for me, kind of a slow push compared to the sharp rap of the .40. Some are bothered enough by this to switch calibers, so try before you buy if possible.

1911-wise, there are a lot to choose from, and the compact officer's model size guns are about the same size as the Glocks you are eyeing. Most all the 1911 makers make a version, but the one that looks most interesting to me right now is Springfield's EMP. I don't mind 9mm for my compacts but they make a .40 version that would appeal to you. With it's slimmed down (fore AND aft) grip frame it would be just the ticket for smaller hands.

For other makers, someone already suggested Kahr, and I like their compact offerings. They feel good in the hand and are easy to pack. I think they make some of the smallest guns for the serious calibers. They have compact .45s and .40s in steel and polymer-framed versions.

The Walther PPS is looking like a contender in the compact gun crowd, but I don't know if they make em bigger than 9mm. About the same size as a PPK/S.

Good luck finding the right choice for you!

I used to carry a CZ83 in 380ACP (9mmKurz) for a couple of years before I left SA. It was a good weapon, as most stuff by CZ is and I had to use it once. However it also developed a problem that required work by a smith. In an emergency situation the only kind of weapon that is of any use is one that works as intended and so the less complexity the better.

Consequently. If I ever get a carry gun again it will likely be a 38sp revolver. Probably a S&W hammerless airlight.

- Peter.

Well, it's a combination of a lot of factors, not just the weight.

It's an interesting sum of design and engineering. THe gun is inexpensive because for one because it is polymer framed, which is less expensive to manufacture than a steel/alloy frame. Its design also contributes to the cost, as it uses a striker-fired mechanism which is simpler. Combined with using as many plastic parts as possible (Mr. Glock was already very experienced in manufacturing items with plastic) and reduced part count of the design, it came out cheaper and lighter than contemporary designs.

The simpler design was also easy to learn to use. Point gun - pull trigger.

Plastic meant less parts to rust. Using a special type of surface hardening made the metal parts like the slide and barrel extremely rust resistant also.

Mr. Glock's design used large tolerances to improve reliability, which also reduced costs by allowing parts to be made with larger tolerances. This had a pleasant side effect of most all parts being drop in with no fitting, simplifying repair and maintenance.

Accuracy is not match grade as priority was on reliability (these were after all designed for the Austrian army), but the resulting acuracy was adequate for most needs.

So it's a combination of price, user-friendliness, reliability, light weight, corrosion resistance and ease of maintenance, plus an aggressive marketing arm and service support that put Glock where it is today.

A steel barrel can work with an aluminum frame, no problem. It's all in the design and engineering of the gun.

And CZ is well known for their guns. Some consider the CZ75 the best 9mm service pistol out there. Tried and tested in battle and competition (IPSC/USPSA action shooting)

for what its worth i love my glock 23c. its small enough to conceal, light, high capacity easy to shoot and very reliable. i have over 20k rounds through it and it shoots as good as new, never a single jam.

What about the "Baby" Glock 26?

It's the smallest Glock pistol and the magazine holds 10 rounds in 0.45 caliber.

If they take guns away from citizens, citizens become subjects.

Had a CZ-75 and sold it to my son's godfather as his back-up for the police academy, right after he came out of the Army and had no spare cash.They are great guns.

Had a .357 Desert Eagle, it jammed too much, sold it. Now I have about 10 guns after selling the Lugers and the Broomhandle Mausers when I had lost my job 10 years ago and needed cash for bills.

Still have the Inglis Browning High Power with 32 round mag and shoulder stock, plus Smith& Wesson 547 but am looking at the Smith revolver that fires .45ACP with half moon clips.

If I can't get him with six from that, hell, I'll fricking bite him to death:D

Good gun without a doubt, and a .45 which is nice, but not as small as the Kahr PM40.

Another pistol that is in the size range as the Kahr PM40 and PM9 is the AMT backup. I have an earlier production one. I looked up the specs and its slightly bigger and heavier. Its DOA also. It has no sights, just a groove. Mine is in .45 ACP. I am not sure they made any other calibers. They did/do make a .380 which is smaller.
Another is the Detonics on the used market.
Tom