Is our government completely corrupt? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #1 03-03-2009, 06:47 AM

President Obama's administration released Bush administration memos that indicate that the President can suspend/supress the Constitution almost at will. I only hope that everyone who is alarmed at those attacks on the Constitution will remain vigilant for any similar attacks by the current and future administrations. Party labels mean nothing when the Ruling Class seeks to destroy the Constitution.
Perhaps charges should be brought against members of that former administration to act as incentive to remember their oath to uphold, preserve and defend that Constitution.
OTOH, I now know why democrats support ever more taxing--they don't intend to pay them! By my count there are now 5 appointees, or candidates for appointment by the current administration that are tax cheats. One is now the head of the tax collection agency--is that irony or what!
Some of you are still under the delusion that we have a fair and balanced press. I would ask you what would be the reaction if 5 Bush appointees had tax "issues"? My crystal ball says that the President would have been hounded at every opportunty. Every republican politician would have been asked, " What is it with your party? Why don't republicans pay their taxes?"
As it is--there is no outcry; no out rage. The bare facts are reported, and only just reported. But if this happened in a republican administration, it would not be allowed to slip quietly away.

What ties these two items together is the arrogance of the Ruling Class. We need tp be ever vigilant to protect our Rights, and to require that our elected rulers follow the law--REGARDLESS of party label.

mgburg · #2 03-03-2009, 08:12 AM

Go back a little further on the suspension of the Constitution and Executive Orders...Nixon had that little ditty in his back pocket when he was in office...if I remember correctly, during his first term.

The scary part?

The Constitution can be suspended during anything that is considered a "crisis" - public order, war or even a "financial" crisis...

So, when you hear those terms bantied about...be afraid...very afraid.

Somewhere, there was a list of executive orders that was listed going back to the Kennedy Administration, if not a bit further...not a lot back then but REAL HEAVY READING now as we moved towards the 21st Century...if I can ever find it, I'll toss in the link...some of it was as boring of a read as watching grass turn brown in the noon-day sun.

But the rest?

MS Fowler · #3 03-03-2009, 08:36 AM

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, IIRC, ( and No, I was not there!) Attacks on our Rights are not new.
My fear is that the Nixon/Bush haters will see this as simply a republican issue, instead of a Ruling Class versus, "We, the People" conflict.

tankdriver · #4 03-03-2009, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

Go back a little further on the suspension of the Constitution and Executive Orders...Nixon had that little ditty in his back pocket when he was in office...if I remember correctly, during his first term.

Coincidental that Cheney was there too.

I think Bush and/or Cheney should've been impeached. Not for the war or 'intelligence', but for s*** like this. For overstepping the bounds of their authority. For evading oversight. For hiding what they were doing, refusing to produce information in court cases against the government.

Corruption and an assault on the Constitution are 2 different subjects. If a Democrat were to do what Bush/Cheney did, I would advocate impeachment for them too.

Honus · #5 03-03-2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

...I think Bush and/or Cheney should've been impeached...

Their actions would have justified impeachment, but I'm glad that the Democrats returned to the conservative view of impeachment that prevailed before Newt Gingrich came along. Impeachment is an extraordinary remedy. That the GOP tried to apply it to Clinton is a sick joke. It's best that we leave that sorry episode in the past.

LUVMBDiesels · #6 03-03-2009, 10:50 AM

From what I understand these memos are just that memos. They were never turned into executive orders and never implemented. I bet if you dig into the files of all our presidents, you will find memos like these. In other words no big deal. I CAN tell you that working at DHS, we are very protective of privacy rights and take personal information very seriously.

Aw forget it... y'all have your opinions set in stone already...

jplinville · #7 03-03-2009, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

Coincidental that Cheney was there too.

I think Bush and/or Cheney should've been impeached. Not for the war or 'intelligence', but for s*** like this. For overstepping the bounds of their authority. For evading oversight. For hiding what they were doing, refusing to produce information in court cases against the government.

Corruption and an assault on the Constitution are 2 different subjects. If a Democrat were to do what Bush/Cheney did, I would advocate impeachment for them too.

Then you backed Clinton's Impeachment?

tankdriver · #8 03-03-2009, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LUVMBDiesels

From what I understand these memos are just that memos. They were never turned into executive orders and never implemented. I bet if you dig into the files of all our presidents, you will find memos like these. In other words no big deal. I CAN tell you that working at DHS, we are very protective of privacy rights and take personal information very seriously.

I wasn't talking about the memos, I was talking about actual actions of theirs.
DHS is part of the executive branch. DHS does what the president tells them to do. DHS did collect information on people from private companies who cooperated with the President because he told them he had the authority to collect said information. How you feel about it is kind of neither here nor there. The deed was done.

Carleton Hughes · #9 03-03-2009, 11:06 AM

In a word,yes.

dannym · #10 03-03-2009, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgburg

Go back a little further on the suspension of the Constitution and Executive Orders...Nixon had that little ditty in his back pocket when he was in office...if I remember correctly, during his first term.

The scary part?

The Constitution can be suspended during anything that is considered a "crisis" - public order, war or even a "financial" crisis...

So, when you hear those terms bantied about...be afraid...very afraid.

Somewhere, there was a list of executive orders that was listed going back to the Kennedy Administration, if not a bit further...not a lot back then but REAL HEAVY READING now as we moved towards the 21st Century...if I can ever find it, I'll toss in the link...some of it was as boring of a read as watching grass turn brown in the noon-day sun.

But the rest?

Nixon??

You can go back much farther to John Adams & more notably Thomas Jefferson.
This isn't something new. Neither is government bailouts. Jefferson did the first govt bailout in 1804.

And don't look to the supreme court to help. They do more interpreting than upholding.

Danny

tankdriver · #11 03-03-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jplinville

Then you backed Clinton's Impeachment?

No. Clinton hid his mistress, not efforts at subverting the Constitution. He also didn't use national security as a weapon in that subversion.
If criminal charges of perjury had been brought on him and he was found guilty, then I would've supported his impeachment.

Impeachment is not to be taken lightly, which it was in his case. The perjury charge was a wild goose chase.

Hatterasguy · #12 03-03-2009, 06:07 PM

And people wonder why we get angry when they try to take away our guns.

Weapons give the citizens options to keep the rulling class in check.

Dubyagee · #13 03-03-2009, 06:27 PM

I read and see how everyone is reacting in a partisan way about all these changes and failings. According to the media we have been divided and are waiting to be conquered while those in the middle are left to feel hopeless. I wonder what would happen if the like minded centrists organized as well as the media based repubs and dems have done.

I hope we wake up as a union before we have been subjugated to the elite few.

Botnst · #14 03-03-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tankdriver

No. Clinton hid his mistress, not efforts at subverting the Constitution. He also didn't use national security as a weapon in that subversion.
If criminal charges of perjury had been brought on him and he was found guilty, then I would've supported his impeachment.

Impeachment is not to be taken lightly, which it was in his case. The perjury charge was a wild goose chase.

NO, Clitnon lied to a grand jury. That's why he lost his law license and so forth.

MS Fowler · #15 03-03-2009, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dubyagee

I read and see how everyone is reacting in a partisan way about all these changes and failings. According to the media we have been divided and are waiting to be conquered while those in the middle are left to feel hopeless. I wonder what would happen if the like minded centrists organized as well as the media based repubs and dems have done.

I hope we wake up as a union before we have been subjugated to the elite few.

I started the thread with illustrations of wrong-doing in both parties. It was my hope that we could rise above partisanship before the one demo-repub party. Maybe we have to lose everything before we can unite on principle.