More Fiction From The Administration

[Txjake]

wrong-headed and nefarious claims regarding the influx of weapons from the US to Mexico is exposed.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/

"A Look at the Numbers

In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.

But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:

-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.

-- Russian crime organizations. Interpol says Russian Mafia groups such as Poldolskaya and Moscow-based Solntsevskaya are actively trafficking drugs and arms in Mexico.

- South America. During the late 1990s, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) established a clandestine arms smuggling and drug trafficking partnership with the Tijuana cartel, according to the Federal Research Division report from the Library of Congress.

-- Asia. According to a 2006 Amnesty International Report, China has provided arms to countries in Asia, Africa and Latin America. Chinese assault weapons and Korean explosives have been recovered in Mexico.

-- The Mexican Army. More than 150,000 soldiers deserted in the last six years, according to Mexican Congressman Robert Badillo. Many took their weapons with them, including the standard issue M-16 assault rifle made in Belgium.

-- Guatemala. U.S. intelligence agencies say traffickers move immigrants, stolen cars, guns and drugs, including most of America's cocaine, along the porous Mexican-Guatemalan border. On March 27, La Hora, a Guatemalan newspaper, reported that police seized 500 grenades and a load of AK-47s on the border. Police say the cache was transported by a Mexican drug cartel operating out of Ixcan, a border town."

More BS......a back door attempt to subvert the 2nd amendment. "We are only doing this to stop the violence in Mexico"

Any reasonable person knows that smugglers were NOT walking into gun stores and shows in the US, purchasing Class III (full auto) weapons and walking them across the border to Mexico. Not happening. Political theater and mind numbing rhetoric from the new regime......

[JollyRoger]

So you are in favor of arming drug cartels?

[Txjake]

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

So you are in favor of arming drug cartels?

not the point, and you know it

[JollyRoger]

And tell me, since the study you cite as being in error is dated "2007-2008", isn't it the Bush Administration that is giving out "more fiction"? The article seems dishonest and poorly written on that count alone.

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by Txjake

In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.

Fun with statistics. Yay.

[Skippy]

Here's an idea. How about we secure the border?

[cmbdiesel]

Maybe we could stop making so many weapons AND secure the border.

[JollyRoger]

Seems like our militia isn't very well-regulated.

[Txjake]

yawn....is this the best argument you guys can come up with?

[cmbdiesel]

Originally Posted by Txjake

yawn....is this the best argument you guys can come up with?

I guess I don't see the point of the thread.

Is it wrong for us to ship arms to Mexico, and you're saying we don't?
In that case what about all the other countries we send arms to, is that wrong too?

Or is it just a random comment made by a democrat that you figured you would take a pot shot at?

[pj67coll]

The point of the article is to expose the lies of the Obama Administration in pretending that 90 percent of the guns used by Drug cartels in the increasing violence in Mexico are sourced in the USA. When in fact the number is likely around 17 percent. This is important as the administration's anti gun radicals have always attempted to restrict the 2nd amendment and they think this gives their argument more ammunition. The fact that it's a lie is irrellevant to them. Repeat a lie often enough and it get's believed.

- Peter.

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

I guess I don't see the point of the thread.

Is it wrong for us to ship arms to Mexico, and you're saying we don't?
In that case what about all the other countries we send arms to, is that wrong too?

Or is it just a random comment made by a democrat that you figured you would take a pot shot at?

It appears that the article writer at least is saying that if you can track 6,000 guns, then don't track 18,000 more, you can still add them to the tracked count.

[JollyRoger]

The entire article reeks with fallacy. If the guns pulled from the stack showed that 90% of what was pulled from the stack came from the US, then anyone who has passed high school statistics will tell you that one can infer that 90% of all the guns, +/- 5%, came from the US. The author twists math like a pretzel to come to his "17%" conclusion, the man is an idiot. Mathematically speaking, Obama is on much firmer ground asserting the stat than this other moron is in his conclusions. This article is koolaid, brewed for the RWNJ crowd.

[DieselAddict]

Originally Posted by tankdriver

It appears that the article writer at least is saying that if you can track 6,000 guns, then don't track 18,000 more, you can still add them to the tracked count.

That immediately jumped at me too. What kind of stupid logic is this? I can see a few people here fell for it, I guess because the author's conclusions match their views. The lesson is, just because something sounds good doesn't mean it's true. The truth is 6000 out of 29000 is more than a good enough sample to get an accurate representation. In statistics usually a much smaller sample will do.

[Botnst]

Originally Posted by Skippy

Here's an idea. How about we secure the border?

Hell no. Let's decide whether to blame party X or party Y. That's the important issue.

Domfork Demopublicans.