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  #1  
Old 04-20-2009, 04:34 PM
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Liberal philosophy

Roger Scruton
Forgiveness and Irony
What makes the West strong


Wherever the Western vision of political order has gained a foothold, we find freedom of expression: not merely the freedom to disagree with others publicly about matters of faith and morality but also the freedom to satirize solemnity and to ridicule nonsense, including solemnity and nonsense of the sacred kind. This freedom of conscience requires secular government. But what makes secular government legitimate?

That question is the starting point of Western political philosophy, the consensus among modern thinkers being that sovereignty and law are made legitimate by the consent of those who must obey them. They show this consent in two ways: by a real or implied “social contract,” whereby each person agrees with every other to the principles of government; and by a political process through which each person participates in the making and enacting of the law. The right and duty of participation is what we mean, or ought to mean, by “citizenship,” and the distinction between political and religious communities can be summed up in the view that political communities are composed of citizens and religious communities of subjects—of those who have “submitted.” If we want a simple definition of the West as it is today, the concept of citizenship is a good starting point. That is what millions of migrants are roaming the world in search of: an order that confers security and freedom in exchange for consent.

That is what people want; it does not, however, make them happy. Something is missing from a life based purely on consent and polite accommodation with your neighbors—something of which Muslims retain a powerful image through the words of the Koran. This missing thing goes by many names: sense, meaning, purpose, faith, brotherhood, submission. People need freedom; but they also need the goal for which they can renounce it. That is the thought contained in the word “Islam”: the willing submission, from which there is no return.

It goes without saying that the word’s connotations are different for Arabic speakers and for speakers of Turkish, Malay, or Bengali. Turks, who live under a secular law derived from the legal systems of post-Napoleonic Europe, are seldom disposed to think that, as Muslims, they must live in a state of continual submission to a divine law that governs all of social and political life. The 20 percent of Muslims who are Arabs, however, feel the mesmerizing rhythms of the Koran as an unbrookable current of compulsion and are apt to take “Islam” literally. For them, this particular act of submission may mean renouncing not only freedom but also the very idea of citizenship. It may involve retreating from the open dialogue on which the secular order depends into the “shade of the Koran,” as Sayyid Qutb put it, in a disturbing book that has inspired the Muslim Brotherhood ever since. Citizenship is precisely not a form of brotherhood, of the kind that follows from a shared act of heartfelt submission: it is a relation among strangers, a collective apartness, in which fulfillment and meaning are confined to the private sphere. To have created this form of renewable loneliness is the great achievement of Western civilization, and my way of describing it raises the question of whether it is worth defending and, if so, how.

My answer is yes, it is worth defending, but only if we recognize the truth that the present conflict with Islamism makes vivid to us: citizenship is not enough, and it will endure only if associated with meanings to which the rising generation can attach its hopes and its search for identity. There is no doubt that the secular order and the search for meaning coexisted quite happily when Christianity provided its benign support to both. But (especially in Europe) Christianity has retreated from public life and is now being driven from private life as well. For people of my generation, it seemed, for a while, as though we could rediscover meaning through culture. The artistic, musical, literary, and philosophical traditions of our civilization bore so many traces of a world-transforming significance that it would be enough—we thought—to pass those things on. Each new generation could then inherit by means of them the spiritual resources that it needed. But we reckoned without two all-important facts: first, the second law of thermodynamics, which tells us that without an injection of energy, all order decays; and second, the rise of what I call the “culture of repudiation,” as those appointed to inject that energy have become increasingly fatigued with the task and have eventually jettisoned the cultural baggage under whose weight they staggered.

This culture of repudiation has transmitted itself, through the media and the schools, across the spiritual terrain of Western civilization, leaving behind it a sense of emptiness and defeat, a sense that nothing is left to believe in or endorse, save only the freedom to believe. And a belief in the freedom to believe is neither a belief nor a freedom. It encourages hesitation in the place of conviction and timidity in the place of choice. It is hardly surprising that so many Muslims in our cities today regard the civilization surrounding them as doomed, even if it is a civilization that has granted them something that they may be unable to find where their own religion triumphs, which is a free, tolerant, and secular rule of law. For they were brought up in a world of certainties; around them, they encounter only doubts.

If repudiation of its past and its identity is all that Western civilization can offer, it cannot survive: it will give way to whatever future civilization can offer hope and consolation to the young and fulfill their deep-rooted human need for social membership. Citizenship, as I have described it, does not fulfill that need: and that is why so many Muslims reject it, seeking instead that consoling “brotherhood” (ikhwan) that has so often been the goal of Islamic revivals. But citizenship is an achievement that we cannot forgo if the modern world is to survive: we have built our prosperity on it, our peace and our stability, and—even if it does not provide happiness—it defines us. We cannot renounce it without ceasing to be.

What is needed is not to reject citizenship as the foundation of social order but to provide it with a heart. And in seeking that heart, we should turn away from the apologetic multiculturalism that has had such a ruinous effect on Western self-confidence and return to the gifts that we have received from our Judeo-Christian tradition.

The first of these gifts is forgiveness.

more at: http://www.city-journal.org/2009/19_1_the-west.html

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Old 04-20-2009, 05:07 PM
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Good timing on that one. I had dinner with my Turkish friends and the Americans who went to Turkey with me last night. We had a little heart to heart around the table at the end, saying what we had learned from the experience. I was last since I was trying to avoid being impolite to the Turks who have repeatedly been gracious hosts. But it was unavoidable eventually and I had, as politely as possible, to state that I had concluded that Islam was in tension with democracy and there was no easy reconciliation. (Contrary to Mr. Scruton's apparent optimism about the Turks). They insisted that Islam had room for democracy and the ideal society was where the majority of the population freely chose to be governed by Sharia law. Not very good for women and gays in my view.
I depart from Mr. Scruton's final comment (although I haven't read the whole piece)about Judaism and Christianity. I think they too will always remain as underlying threats to a secular, democratic society in slightly different ways than Islam or Buddhism, yet threats nonetheless.
We need to find fulfillment in the concrete experiences of everyday life and be willing to live with metaphysical anomie.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:22 PM
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I depart from Mr. Scruton's final comment (although I haven't read the whole piece)about Judaism and Christianity.
Haven't read it all yet either, but I agree. They both fit rather well with what he says about Islam.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:30 PM
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I've read it now. I think he waffles. He really likes Enlightenment ideals and manages to think that somehow Jewish and Christian values are happily allied with such values.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:56 PM
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I've read it now. I think he waffles. He really likes Enlightenment ideals and manages to think that somehow Jewish and Christian values are happily allied with such values.
He does an interesting dance. That's why I posted it. The bit about Islam was nothing new.

There is this part that nags at me: What is it about Christianity in particular that secular western moral principals arose there and not elsewhere. Chinese moral principals (I'm thinking especially of Confucianism) produce a very stable state. Perhaps stagnant? The statism of Confucianism fits the socialist agenda like a glove, in comparison to the uncomfortable relationship between Christianity and western statism.
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Old 04-20-2009, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post


....There is no doubt that the secular order and the search for meaning coexisted quite happily when Christianity provided its benign support to both. But (especially in Europe) Christianity has retreated from public life and is now being driven from private life as well.

For people of my generation, it seemed, for a while, as though we could rediscover meaning through culture. ....But we reckoned without two all-important facts: first, the second law of thermodynamics, which tells us that without an injection of energy, all order decays;

and second, the rise of what I call the “culture of repudiation,” as those appointed to inject that energy have become increasingly fatigued with the task and have eventually jettisoned the cultural baggage under whose weight they staggered.
Benign? Hardly. More people have died in the name of christ, than can be counted.

Operative words of that statement - 'my generation'. Many of that generation regard modern culture as 'unworthy', when, in fact, it is just different. There are plenty of 'injections of energy', but you can't look for them in 'all the same places' or among 'the usual suspects'

'jettisoned the cultural baggage' - sounds like a good idea.

Roger makes a few good points, but a return to religion as a basic part of society is a step backwards. Everyone is entitled to their own religious beliefs, but keep them out of my government
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Old 04-20-2009, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
He does an interesting dance. That's why I posted it. The bit about Islam was nothing new.

There is this part that nags at me: What is it about Christianity in particular that secular western moral principals arose there and not elsewhere. Chinese moral principals (I'm thinking especially of Confucianism) produce a very stable state. Perhaps stagnant? The statism of Confucianism fits the socialist agenda like a glove, in comparison to the uncomfortable relationship between Christianity and western statism.
Confucianism was designed as a feudal religion, producing social stability, a very small amount of class movement and elite rule. Islam was designed as a religion for an expanding empire. Christianity was an otherworldly cult that emerged within a imperial system with no intent of supporting government. It only began to be religion of feudalism 300 years after its founding. It had a temporary lease on political powers for a little over 1000 years so when the eviction papers were served, it had to leave.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:49 PM
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Benign? Hardly. More people have died in the name of christ, than can be counted.....
I'll bet in absolute terms, more people have died at the hands of atheistic regimes than Christian regimes.
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Old 04-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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Confucianism was designed as a feudal religion, producing social stability, a very small amount of class movement and elite rule. Islam was designed as a religion for an expanding empire. Christianity was an otherworldly cult that emerged within a imperial system with no intent of supporting government. It only began to be religion of feudalism 300 years after its founding. It had a temporary lease on political powers for a little over 1000 years so when the eviction papers were served, it had to leave.
Nice synopsis of history.

Why is/was Confucianism so stable a force of government while at it's most powerful, Christianity couldn't keep it's feudal lords from butchering each other? True, when China has had a revolution, many millions die. A pattern that goes back to antiquity. But Europeans (including Byzantium and the Levant) have been in near continuous war with each other and the outside ever since the fall of Rome. Is the religion itself inherently violent? Not according to Jesus' words, which are in striking contrast to Muhammad and more like Buddha. OTOH, Jesus' words are awfully contemptuous of politics and political institutions (and religious institutions!), which is entirely unlike Confucianism or Christianity for that matter.
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Old 04-21-2009, 02:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Nice synopsis of history.

Why is/was Confucianism so stable a force of government while at it's most powerful, Christianity couldn't keep it's feudal lords from butchering each other? True, when China has had a revolution, many millions die. A pattern that goes back to antiquity. But Europeans (including Byzantium and the Levant) have been in near continuous war with each other and the outside ever since the fall of Rome. Is the religion itself inherently violent? Not according to Jesus' words, which are in striking contrast to Muhammad and more like Buddha. OTOH, Jesus' words are awfully contemptuous of politics and political institutions (and religious institutions!), which is entirely unlike Confucianism or Christianity for that matter.
how do you separate "jesus' words" from "christianity"? just wondering?
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Old 04-21-2009, 07:24 AM
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how do you separate "jesus' words" from "christianity"? just wondering?
The religion is what people built-up around the (very few) words that Jesus spoke. Get a "red letter" Bible and see for yourself. You can read everything Jesus reportedly said in a short afternoon. Everything else is commentary.
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Old 04-21-2009, 09:17 AM
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Do a little googling on Jesus Seminar and you'll find that you can probably read the historically-likely words of Jesus in less time than it takes to read this thread.
But the point is a good one. Christians who take the (alleged) words of Jesus more seriously than the institutions of Christianity are going to have serious doubts about connecting their religion with politics. Anabaptists are a good example. I think it was the result of the printing press and bibles in the vernacular allowing people to read the text that resulted in the political eviction case against Christianity.
If that's true, the evolution of secular politics is an historical accident, unlikely to be repeated unless similar conditions of a misfit occur.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by kerry View Post
I think it was the result of the printing press and bibles in the vernacular allowing people to read the text that resulted in the political eviction case against Christianity.
If that's true, the evolution of secular politics is an historical accident, unlikely to be repeated unless similar conditions of a misfit occur.
An accident on par with the discovery of penicillin.
Hopefully, Indonesia will be able to continue their run of secular government in a majority Muslim country. They can be a fine example for others to follow.
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Old 04-21-2009, 10:20 AM
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An accident on par with the discovery of penicillin.
Hopefully, Indonesia will be able to continue their run of secular government in a majority Muslim country. They can be a fine example for others to follow.
Both Indonesia and Turkey have been able to maintain secular governments with a strong centralization of power and a lot of repression. (Not up on the details of Indonesian history as much as Turkey). So the complaint of Muslims that secular governments are not very free is legit in those instances. The problem is that without forced secularization, both those governments are likely to turn into religious regimes. Neither option is very appealing to me.
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Old 04-21-2009, 11:21 AM
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Indonesia has been making strides since some broad changes in '99 removed the armed forces formal participation in administering the gov't. It remains to be seen if they can continue to elect secular leaders, as they move towards a more freely elected government.

Which is the greater of two evils, the religious regime or the secular regime held in place by the force of might? Glad it is not a choice we must make here.

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