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Rust resistance on newer cars
Swedish chemical-technical institute Swerea KIMAB (jointly owned by industry and government) has performed an extensive analysis of cut-off body parts from 30 different models sold 2002-2005 to see which models are prone to rust. This might be of interest to you even if not all of the models are sold in the US. I'm particularly surprised that higher-end models like Mercedes E-class, BMW 5-series and Saab 9-5 gets disappointing results and places on the bottom half of the list.
http://www.newsdesk.se/pressroom/KIMAB/pressrelease/view/new-investigation-of-the-corrosion-resistance-of-cars-293417 Quote:
Here's a picture of a 2003 Ford Mondeo door And here's the lists 2002/2003 models, from best to worse: Audi A4 Volvo 70-series VW Golf Mercedes C-class Opel Astra Renault Megane Volvo 40-series VW Passat Mitsubishi Carisma Skoda Octavia Nissan Micra Peugeot 307 Citroën C5 Saab 9-5 Fiat Punto Saab 9-3 BMW 3-series Toyota Corolla Mercedes E-class BMW 5-series Ford Mondeo Seat Ibiza Ford Focus Mazda 6 Chevrolet Trans Sport 2004/2005-models, best to worse: BMW 5-serie Nissan Micra Renault Megane Volvo 40-series Ford Mondeo Peugeot 307 Saab 9-3 Fiat Punto Volvo 70-series Opel Astra Saab 9-5 Skoda Octavia Citroën C5 VW Golf Mercedes A-class VW Passat BMW 3-series Toyota Corolla Hyundai Tucson Ford Focus Kia Picanto Hyundai Santa Fe
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Tomas, Sweden 1966 Mercedes Benz 230S with OM617.912, automatic. Disk brakes from W108 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD grey, OM617.912 and 5-speed manual 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD blue 7-seater, OM617.912 and 5-speed manual Last edited by tompaah7503; 05-13-2009 at 05:06 AM. |
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I thought modern cars were made of plastic?
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You're probably thinking of the Trabant which by no means is a modern car
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Tomas, Sweden 1966 Mercedes Benz 230S with OM617.912, automatic. Disk brakes from W108 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD grey, OM617.912 and 5-speed manual 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD blue 7-seater, OM617.912 and 5-speed manual |
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Bahh... no interest to me. My new car is the '83 SD!
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Mike 1983 Mercedes-Benz 300SD 270K 1960 Ford F250 62K 1990 Mazda Miata 156k The thing is Bob, it's not that I'm lazy, it's that I just don't care. |
#5
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My '90 300E started winter with no rust....and it still has no rust. Apparently they did a better job on the older ones....further showing why I should never buy a newer car.
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
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They should have taken pictures of our '02 car! Not good. OTOH, my 1999 sedan is spotless in terms of "rust".
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1998 W210 diesel (wiped out by a texter) Baum spring compressor "for rent" |
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What the study doesn't shoe is disturbing to me...where the majority of the steel comes from.
As a tool maker for almost 25 years, I have witnessed a degradation in the quality of the steel on the market in the last 15 years. Certain steels, alloys if you will, such as D2 and A2 (common tool steels) used to remain quite stable during the heat treating process (a process which hardens tool steels for different uses). When I started in this trade, you could guarantee that certain steels would expand or shrink a certain percentage during this process, therefore it was necessary to have additional stock left on before heat treating, but no more than .010". Not anymore...many times it changes between distrubitors...some will grow and others will shrink as much as .030", and we are talking about the same D2 which is supposed to be industry standard. Cheaper steels have entered the market from China that are not made to the same stringent standards that it once was. Want proof? Think of the original Toyotas versus the other cars from back in the 1970's and 1980's...they rusted away within a matter of a few years, where the other vehicles lasted much longer. It all boils down to this question...Where did the steel come from?
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1987 560SL 85,000 miles Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
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#8
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Quote:
Most of the time things are cheap for a reason....Sure there are cases of more efficient manufacturing processes but there are probably just as many cases of companys cutting corners....
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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out 1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out) 1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481) "The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care." |
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Quote:
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1987 560SL 85,000 miles Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
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#10
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Quote:
Want proof? Take two sheets of steel, the kind used in automaking, 1) the highest-quality one (virgin German or whatever) you can find 2) the crappiest Chinese recycled bit you can find and leave them exposed unprotected to the weather, rain, salts and acids. Which of these do you think will be around in 20 years time? The correct answer is: neither one. You'll have trouble finding either of the sheets after only two years. So what it boils down is build quality. How the seals, joints and welds are protected. How good the body is at getting rid of trapped moisture. What protective coats, sealants, paints and other chemicals are used to protect the steel. Toyota, Datsun and other Japanese makers have gotten an unfair reputation for being rustbuckets in the 70's. In the environment where I live in every brand rusts. Take any unrestored car from the 1900-1990 timeframe and they will all have serious rust-issues. Benzes, Volvos, American, German brands, all of them. The Japanese cars seemingly rusted quickers since they were much cheaper and people didn't take too much care of them. No regular rust-proofing and no rust repairs. (and probably a fair bit of poor engineering in the respect of bad joints and many moisture traps did what it could to aid the corrosion).
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Tomas, Sweden 1966 Mercedes Benz 230S with OM617.912, automatic. Disk brakes from W108 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD grey, OM617.912 and 5-speed manual 1983 Mercedes Benz 300TD blue 7-seater, OM617.912 and 5-speed manual |
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You've never seen a W123 rust bucket? I've seen plenty on Ebay! Having said that, the panels on my W123 cars did seem to have better rust-proofing than those on my W210.
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2004 VW Jetta TDI (manual) Past MB's: '96 E300D, '83 240D, '82 300D, '87 300D, '87 420SEL |
#12
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My brother's W123 has rust, as does my W126, but it doesn't seem to progress very quickly, just little patches and spots, and they are easily treated. The W124 has no rust at all.....
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-diesel is not just a fuel, its a way of life- '15 GLK250 Bluetec 118k - mine - (OC-123,800) '17 Metris(VITO!) - 37k - wifes (OC-41k) '09 Sprinter 3500 Winnebago View - 62k (OC - 67k) '13 ML350 Bluetec - 95k - dad's (OC-98k) '01 SL500 - 103k(km) - dad's (OC-110,000km) '16 E400 4matic Sedan - 148k - Brothers (OC-155k) |
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240z in GP Texas
The current china repop steel what ever parts-Dynacore is 2/3 as thick as the origonal whatever part. the 47-54 chevy rear pickup fenders are already rusting thru-more than a few guys are reporting. 70's Japanese cars---Heads UP---- a SWEET 240z body is in Awsome auto salvage in Grand Praire Tx spotted yesterday, yellow-hardly any rust in rear wheel lips. snag it if you're an early z fan!
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#14
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Quote:
From what we studied and were taught in Metallurgy class, Chinese steel isn't made to the same degree of quality and standards that American and German steels are...all too often, ingredients such as carbon are not properly measured during the smelting process. I would lay money on German steel still being around after 20 years of rust.
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1987 560SL 85,000 miles Meet on the level, leave on the square. Great words to live by Were we directed from Washington when to sow and when to reap, we should soon want bread. - Thomas Jefferson: Autobiography, 1821.
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#15
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Cheap Euro cars. My Chevy lived its first 4 years in Ohio and is clean.
Anyway quality has a lot to do with it. I remember reading that their are still some armor plates sitting in a shipyard in Germany from the Bismark and they are still clean. Now that is top quality steel.
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1999 SL500 1969 280SE 2023 Ram 1500 2007 Tiara 3200 |
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