Gang violence--whats the answer? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MS Fowler · #1 06-02-2009, 07:00 AM

Probably not a typical democrat-republican issue.
Gangs seem to be taking over the Baltimore Metro area. In downtown they inhabit the parking garages and hastle/ anoy demand money from patrons.
In the Inner Harbor, they extort money from tourists.
Late late year a group attacked a women on a bus and disfigured her.
In the suburban high schools, and middle schools ,they intimidate students.
Yesterday, a very sad event in Columbia, MD--2 youths one 16, and one 14 years old, attacked another student and killed him as he tried to egt away. The victims's parents had recently changedm his HS to get away from the same group of gang thugs who eventually killed him.

So what is the answer? How does we as a society get control?

Oh, by the way, all of these incidents were black on white crime--although the news never reports that. If the races were reversed, Jesse, and the race-hustlers would be all over it, but when blacks are the perpertrators, you can't even call it a hate crime. Does that PC reporting help with a solution, or does it mask the problem?

#2 06-02-2009, 08:18 AM

Wow good question. One question was it a hate crime? I mean to say did the black youths pick on the person because he was white? Or are you trying to more get to the point this seems to be a predomiantly black problem? (not trying to be stupid just asking) I belive there is no single answer to gang violence. After school programs might be able to help? Speaking to parents? Getting more officers involved in the community? This is a subject that I don't really know much about. But certainly a good question.

pj67coll · #3 06-02-2009, 09:57 AM

Kill gangsters.

- Peter.

Hatterasguy · #4 06-02-2009, 10:01 AM

Its a cultural thing, inner city families break down or don't exist to begin with. The kids run wild, and the thug culture sells well to them.

In the inner cities they seem to be mostly black or mexican because of the white flight over the years. But thats not always the case.

My solution is to stay far away.

MS Fowler · #5 06-02-2009, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

Its a cultural thing, inner city families break down or don't exist to begin with. The kids run wild, and the thug culture sells well to them.

In the inner cities they seem to be mostly black or mexican because of the white flight over the years. But thats not always the case.

My solution is to stay far away.

I understand thenbreakdown of the families in the inner city. but this has gotten well into the suburbs.
I was not intending to say that it was a black issue; only that black on white crime is not treated the same as white on black crime. Somehow blacks are never charged with hate-crimes.
In the larger sense, it doesn't matter; the victum is still dead whether it was a hate-crime or not.

No, the real question is how do we stop the rise of gangs and gang-related violence in our society? It is not simply an inner city problem.

jlomon · #6 06-02-2009, 10:32 AM

A two-pronged "carrot and stick" approach. I think there are two fundamental reasons that someone joins a gang - protection from other gangs or as a source of income where other sources are not available. The carrot part of the approach is to invest in inner cities to provide legitimate opportunities for income so there is an alternative to crime. Dovetailing in with this is the "stick" - harsh punishment for people convicted of gang-related crimes and a sense of security in the neighborhoods that are controlled by gangs.

There will always be a criminal element - you'll never eradicate it completely. But if you can make it a less-attractive alternative you'll prevent a lot of people from walking down that path.

JollyRoger · #7 06-02-2009, 10:35 AM

In the big Texas metropolitan areas, they are a huge problem, but tend to be a problem only for those who live in the neighborhoods they inhabit. About fifteen years ago, in Houston they were a HUGE problem everywhere. Then a guy named Bob Lanier came along, he ran for mayor and did an honest thing, he said if elected he was going to raise taxes, and the higher taxes would be used for one thing: hire more cops. Lots of cops. Gang intolerent cops. He won, they hired thousands more police, and then Harris County followed suit, hiring more sheriffs and constables as well, and they all went to work, sending anyone who looked at someone with a gang-glint in their eye to jail. It's been a lot better ever since, at least in Houston, but in the cities where they have not gone the extra mile on hiring cops, San Antonio most notably, gangs are making people's lives miserable, so there, they just shoot them.

lutzTD · #8 06-02-2009, 11:11 AM

If you were going to rob someone, who would be the better target? A white guy in a suit and a BMW 525 or a black guy in a suit and a BMW 525?

kerry · #9 06-02-2009, 11:25 AM

We used to have a gang problem in the west side of our neighborhood. About 15 years ago, the city bought a house in the middle of one of the blocks and put a police sub station in it. Took care of the problem. Although, I couple of weeks ago I saw the first graffitti with the gangs name back in the neighborhood in about 8 yrs. Something has changed. I'll have to drive by and see if they shut down the sub station.

JonL · #10 06-02-2009, 11:40 AM

jlomon has a good post. I think there is also the desire to belong to a community, or in a sense, a family. If gangs are spreading to the suburbs, I think it is because of two things. For a while gangs were being somewhat glorified in the popular culture, the glorification could appeal to suburban youths who don't see the dark side as obviously. Second, even in suburbia there has been a breakdown in family structure because parents are working longer and harder to make ends meet. (And this applies to ALL kinds of families and parents... traditional mom and pop, single parent, gay couples, etc.)

I'm not at all a fan of Rudy Guliani, but I have to give him props for turning NYC around. His focus on "quality of life" crimes eventually made people realize that antisocial behavior was unacceptable and even in the most depressed parts of the city people just got tired of being criminals. It's almost as if criminal behavior went out of style. He cracked down on grafitti, panhandling, squeegee people, subway fare-beaters, etc. All kinds of things that used to be considered nothing more than nuisances. I think people in the worst neighborhoods began to enjoy living without the derelict cars, graffiti, gunfire, etc and the neighborhoods all improved.

I think there also has to be economic opportunity. That's a tougher one, especially for inner city kids that may have great social skill for their own environment, but lack the social skills required for mainstream jobs.

And the last thing is that there needs to be a way to blow off steam. I remember when "midnight basketball" programs were the focus of derision from the right wing talking heads. Seems to me that funding things like this are a very inexpensive way to provide a healthy outlet for youthful energy and testosterone.

LUVMBDiesels · #11 06-02-2009, 12:11 PM

THIS HAPPENED IN COLUMBIA???!!
I used to go there all the time and it was such a nice place (one of the first totally planned communities in the USA)

I cannot believe gang violence has spread to there.

I agree with Jon's assessment of Rudy. I am a huge fan of his, having worked in NYC during the Koch and Dinkins administrations I was shocked by Rudy's ability to turn things around. One thing that I thnik needs correcting though, by taking care of the burned out cars, graffiti, etc, Rudy and the NYPD made conditions such that the good people of NYC could stand up and take back their neighborhoods. Criminals didn't just say, "Gee I think I will turn honest today" The people stopped tolerating them in their midst and basically shiut them down. Neighborhood watches sprang up, people called the Cops (who would actually show up, imagine that...), and the conditons that fostered crime went away. Now I can actually feel safe running around weaponless Manhattan even at night, something I don't feel in DC even in daylight... back in the 1980's when I worked in NY, I was armed to the teeth and only went around in groups of at least three all of us armed with knives and maybe somethings that went bang...

As far as gangs go, the best thing to do is what they did in NY and in LA. Create tactical teams that swoop into a neighboorhood and round up all the gangbangers. In NY they pretty much stopped gang activity and in LA they curtailed it greatly. Once you round up and convict the hard core leaders, you can work with the younger members to turn them around...

kerry · #12 06-02-2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonL

j

I'm not at all a fan of Rudy Guliani, but I have to give him props for turning NYC around. His focus on "quality of life" crimes eventually made people realize that antisocial behavior was unacceptable and even in the most depressed parts of the city people just got tired of being criminals. It's almost as if criminal behavior went out of style. .

The book Freakenomics has an argument that it wasn't Guiliani that reduced crime in NYC but Roe v Wade.

Phil · #13 06-02-2009, 01:13 PM

Every state in the country and definitly here in California school systems are running out of money and that means fewer teachers and less programs including sports, music and comon intrest clubs. No programs means kids standing around with nothing to do and now not very many jobs and a lot of them have both parents working to make ends meet so they get pulled in to groups such as gangs. If you want to reduce gangs to a minimum start funding schools and their programs so there is an alternative. If the schools had the money it would take time but it would turn around and it would probably reduce the drop out rate as well.

H-townbenzoboy · #14 06-02-2009, 01:26 PM

Somebody call Charles Bronson!

E150GT · #15 06-02-2009, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

In the big Texas metropolitan areas, they are a huge problem, but tend to be a problem only for those who live in the neighborhoods they inhabit. About fifteen years ago, in Houston they were a HUGE problem everywhere. Then a guy named Bob Lanier came along, he ran for mayor and did an honest thing, he said if elected he was going to raise taxes, and the higher taxes would be used for one thing: hire more cops. Lots of cops. Gang intolerent cops. He won, they hired thousands more police, and then Harris County followed suit, hiring more sheriffs and constables as well, and they all went to work, sending anyone who looked at someone with a gang-glint in their eye to jail. It's been a lot better ever since, at least in Houston, but in the cities where they have not gone the extra mile on hiring cops, San Antonio most notably, gangs are making people's lives miserable, so there, they just shoot them.

I have not much experience with gangs, but as Hattie says, just go away to the good side of town. Thats what I did. My parents are both probation officers, and the side of town we lived on was infested with gang members and drug dealers and they could see where these people lived and the crimes they commited. pretty scary. I went to a high school that was pretty bad, but if you just kept to your group of friends you were ok. I suppose I am lucky that I grew up on a seedy part of town but really didnt have much problem with lowlifes.