Why is there no national debate?

[MS Fowler]

A number of issues are before Congress. All of them involve massive new spending, and none of them are simplistic issues. Health Care, Cap and Trade to name two of them.
These will be voted on, and presumable passed and signed with no significant debate.
Is that good government?
Is there anyway to back out of either of them if the situation demands?

I am really frustrated by the lack of any objective discussion--other than here on OD-- of these MAJOR changes in the way the USA is going.

I could live with results contrary to my wishes if there had been a fair hearing and discussion. It seems that with all the votes in the bag, the dems will just impose their will, simply because they can. Again, I ask, is this really good government?

[POS]

No it's not good government, and in this case I don't think anyone can say the Dems rule and Repub suck or vice-versa; when the Repubs had the branches of govt, they spent money like russian oligarchs. None of this stuff is easily reversed, and the Dems aren't interested in any debate over what they want - they're just cramming through what they can get away with. Our only recourse as the citizenry is to vote and possibly protest, although the protesting thing will require a major movement which isn't likely.

The only good thing we have to keep the politicians in check are the polls - for some reason, these spineless twits in DC still pay attention to the polls.

[jplinville]

I think those on the right side of the isle in the house have given up due to not having enough votes to stop it. They may be looking at it as trying to stop a runaway train.

[MS Fowler]

Originally Posted by jplinville

I think those on the right side of the isle in the house have given up due to not having enough votes to stop it. They may be looking at it as trying to stop a runaway train.

But isn't there some value in fighting the good fight, even though, or perhaps, because you know it will still be in vain? Isn't there some pride in saying, " I fought against that--and it turns out I was right"...Let me tell you what I think about what needs to be done now..."?
Who knows such principled stands might be rallying points after a number of years. Maybe today's politicians can't see beyond their next election.
Where are the Statesmen?

[jplinville]

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

But isn't there some value in fighting the good fight, even though, or perhaps, because you know it will still be in vain? Isn't there some pride in saying, " I fought against that--and it turns out I was right"...Let me tell you what I think about what needs to be done now..."?
Who knows such principled stands might be rallying points after a number of years. Maybe today's politicians can't see beyond their next election.
Where are the Statesmen?

The value in a good fight is great...but the focus on the problem at hand doesn't seem to be there any more.

i can't wait for the 2010 vote to get these lame people out of office.

[t walgamuth]

I think there is probably debate going on its just not making the "news" what with Brad and Angelina adopting babies and octomom to be reported on and all matter of important such "news".

[tankdriver]

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

A number of issues are before Congress. All of them involve massive new spending, and none of them are simplistic issues. Health Care, Cap and Trade to name two of them.
These will be voted on, and presumable passed and signed with no significant debate.
Is that good government?
Is there anyway to back out of either of them if the situation demands?

I am really frustrated by the lack of any objective discussion--other than here on OD-- of these MAJOR changes in the way the USA is going.

I could live with results contrary to my wishes if there had been a fair hearing and discussion. It seems that with all the votes in the bag, the dems will just impose their will, simply because they can. Again, I ask, is this really good government?

I do not think it's really fair to blame the government because the majority of people are either dumb or don't care. That's why there's little debate. They're still talking about it in Congress and on the Sunday talking heads shows though.
Those of us who care are few and far between.

[jplinville]

Originally Posted by tankdriver

Those of us who care are few and far between.

Exactly...too many people have put faith in elected officials to make everything right, and don't keep tabs on them. Those of us who follow the topics, are intent on doing the debating while those who don't, think everything will be peachy in the end.

We may not all agree on these topics, but at least we agree on the importance of them.

[Kuan]

Two parties. One will always have control over the other or there will be deadlock.

[Squabble]

i agree with most of what everyone is saying, the dem majority will push through what they can with little debate and lots of under the table dealing.

however, where were you guys when the country was in panic mode after 9/11 and the repubs and dems pushed through a bunch of crazy a$$ freedom crushing "patriotic" b.s.? remember, ronald reagan said "i believe the heart of conservatism is libertarianism." so what the heck happened there republicans???

the country is reacting strongly and blindly to the horrendous b.s. from the last 8 years of republican rule. the people voted, it's democracy, and it's all the fault of YOU republicans allowing your people to stretch their power well past what we needed it to be. ALL politicians and political parties need to be kept in check, and for 8 years, the republicans looked the other way and aggressively rubbed the actions of the people they voted for in the face of the american people who wanted things to be a little more humble and normal. after having to put up with that idiot in the white house and all his little ignorant giggling buddies, can you really be surprised a democrat was voted in???

what i'm saying is, though i agree with what most of you are saying, can someone just come to their senses and realize that voting in a bunch of republicans won't fix a darn thing???

POS is right, they spent money like crazy, along with a bunch of other not so conservative things to say the least... there is no more normal, humble republican base, they all went bat poo crazy with hardcore conservative politics and religion.

someone has to change the game or it will keep getting played the same way, and we the people get played too.

until then, the dem majority pushes their stuff through, gets voted out, repubs get voted in, push their stuff through, get voted out, etc. etc. etc. i'm only 28 years old, aren't you guys used to this yet? don't you see a pattern???

[MS Fowler]

Originally Posted by jplinville

Exactly...too many people have put faith in elected officials to make everything right, and don't keep tabs on them. Those of us who follow the topics, are intent on doing the debating while those who don't, think everything will be peachy in the end.

We may not all agree on these topics, but at least we agree on the importance of them.

Someone ( Will Rogers?) once observed that "We get the government we deserve."
Too many people, too distracted by pop culture, so we get pop culture government.
It is very sad.

[Strife]

Haven't you heard? Michael Jackson just died, and this is the REAL national crisis.

[450slcguy]

The debate is over, it's time for action.

If the Repo's want to direct the national agenda, then organize your supporters and elect your representatives. Any talk other than that is just political sour grapes. It's no accident we have a Democratic President and a Democratic congress. The people have spoken and have overwhelmingly elected who they want to speak for them.

When and if the majority of the American Public agrees with the GOP agenda, then perhaps their voices will be heard again. But until that day happens, go suck eggs.

I don't agree with everything the Dem's are saying and doing, but I sure as hell believe the GOP has lost their way when it comes to representing the American people.

[compress ignite]

Except this time around we're gonna spend the "Money"(?) (Chinese?) on
ourselves,rather than some spurious foreign war.

I still anxiously awaiting the television broadcasting of the war crimes trials,
This set should make WaterGate look like Sesame Street...

...Rowe in shackles pushing Cheney handcuffed in a wheelchair...


"Politicians lie to the Media,Then when they see these lies in print,proclaim them
as Public Opinion."

[Squabble]

Originally Posted by MS Fowler

Someone ( Will Rogers?) once observed that "We get the government we deserve."
Too many people, too distracted by pop culture, so we get pop culture government.
It is very sad.

you have got to be kidding me.

you think people voted because of pop culture???

if the rest of the GOP has their fingers so far off the pulse of the american people as you do, they're screwed.

people wanted a change from what they had for 8 years. in our political system, we have just two lame parties. if you want a change, you vote for the other party, end of story. not to mention the fact that the GOP put some 130 year old grumpy old "you kids get off my lawn," let's bomb everyone freakshow coupled with a half wit backwoods redneck from alaska of all places to be the representative of the whole of the american people???

the GOP got what they deserved after 8 years of insanity and then putting forward those two candidates for us to choose to represent us.

that's why people voted the way they did. face reality or the party is screwed. 450slcguy is right, it's time for the GOP to listen to the actual american people and start to represent them, rather than sit around and call everyone an idiot influenced by popular culture.