Fed Deficit vs Taxes - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

280EZRider · #1 08-27-2009, 12:01 PM

This article is a good, plainly written piece about why the federal government is on the verge of failing and hence, the entire country, and why we still haven't learned our lesson as debt-ridden consumers. Sorry folks, but borrowing money will never get you out of debt:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Why-the-federal-deficit-will-cnnm-3260062803.html/print?x=0

JollyRoger · #2 08-27-2009, 12:51 PM

The US is about to be pushed to a VAT tax system as in use by the rest of the industrial democracy, we will soon be faced with no other choice. Paying for tax cuts with borrowed money, the insanity that started this mess, must now be recognized for what is: utterly stupid and crazy.

BobK · #3 08-27-2009, 01:23 PM

oh heck yeah, that will get the economy running, upping the price of everything by the VAT.

tankdriver · #4 08-27-2009, 01:56 PM

Who would've thought the legacy of recent Republicans would be out of control deficits.

MS Fowler · #5 08-27-2009, 02:20 PM

Obama has been President for 8 months with complete control in Congress and we are still spending billions a day in foreign wars. I thought that was going to stop--then we'd have all the money we need for social programs, etc.

Why are we still in Iraq?

75Sv1 · #6 08-27-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobK

oh heck yeah, that will get the economy running, upping the price of everything by the VAT.

One thing that might work is to tax imported goods. Or tax them for the price they sell at. I think right now some things are imported at say price 'X'. The company claims it take price 'X' or near price 'X' to sell and import etc. the item. So no profit. Hence no tax being paid on it. Also, plenty of our items are taxed major when they are exported to another country. The US took it after WW2 to help revive other countries economies. But it is a global economy now. I do think we, the US, do protect our agriculture a bit much though.
Tom

aklim · #7 08-27-2009, 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

The US is about to be pushed to a VAT tax system as in use by the rest of the industrial democracy, we will soon be faced with no other choice. Paying for tax cuts with borrowed money, the insanity that started this mess, must now be recognized for what is: utterly stupid and crazy.

That isn't a bad idea at all. You spend more, you pay more. After all, the more you buy, the more the infrastructure is "taxed" to get it to you and therefore you should pay more. I'd be for it if they scrapped all the taxes altogether and just went to VAT. Right now, I have no real way of knowing what I paid for in taxes. There is Fed tax, state tax, county tax, city tax, town tax, etc, etc. The beauty of that system is that they can raise taxes without you even knowing they are doing it or it is so insignificant that you don't feel it and don't think to protest it. Added together, it is a lot of tax. With VAT, you KNOW up front what you are paying.

dynalow · #8 08-27-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

That isn't a bad idea at all. You spend more, you pay more. After all, the more you buy, the more the infrastructure is "taxed" to get it to you and therefore you should pay more. I'd be for it if they scrapped all the taxes altogether and just went to VAT. Right now, I have no real way of knowing what I paid for in taxes. There is Fed tax, state tax, county tax, city tax, town tax, etc, etc. The beauty of that system is that they can raise taxes without you even knowing they are doing it or it is so insignificant that you don't feel it and don't think to protest it. Added together, it is a lot of tax. With VAT, you KNOW up front what you are paying.

For starters, give this a gander. Read it and weep.

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/topic/67.html

280EZRider · #9 08-27-2009, 04:41 PM

I think most will agree that the problem is not so much lack of tax money, but poorly distributed tax base. Utopia: 10% tax on all income (personal & corporate) with absolutely no loopholes, no write-offs, no earned-income credit, no nothing. 10% period. It seems that about every 20 years or so, one obscure senator or representative will advocate this and then he "disappears." Of course, thousands of acountants would lose jobs with a sane tax system, and the government could no longer remain in bed with big business. People in government would have to resort to status of "public servant." It seems to me the constitution mentions something similar.

Wouldn't it be grand: no more fat-cat government pukes, and a simple tax system supporting the country that even a five-year-old could figure out. Alas, it is just a fantasy. Making sense is not government policy.

dynalow · #10 08-27-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 280EZRider

I think most will agree that the problem is not so much lack of tax money, but poorly distributed tax base. Utopia: 10% tax on all income (personal & corporate) with absolutely no loopholes, no write-offs, no earned-income credit, no nothing. 10% period. It seems that about every 20 years or so, one obscure senator or representative will advocate this and then he "disappears." Of course, thousands of acountants would lose jobs with a sane tax system, and the government could no longer remain in bed with big business. People in government would have to resort to status of "public servant." It seems to me the constitution mentions something similar.

Wouldn't it be grand: no more fat-cat government pukes, and a simple tax system supporting the country that even a five-year-old could figure out. Alas, it is just a fantasy. Making sense is not government policy.

Utopia indeed.

And you are off by three years. It was 1986, when that obscure Senator from New Jersey, one William Bradley,a dem. from NJ ( and former all-pro forward with the New York Knicks

) championed with republicans what is likely to be the closest think to a flat income tax this country will ever see. Effective in 1988, there was a 15% bracket for couples up to up to 29,750, then it went up to 28% ( There was a 5% adjustment- a bubble bracket- to phase out the 15% bracket benefit). So, the highest incomes were taxed at a flat 28% of taxable income.
Alas, it was short lived. "Read my lips. No new taxes." of Bush I and the Dems in 1993 reverted back to higher tax brackets.

Forty year ago, the 1040A was almost a post card. Ah, the simplicity of it then. Forever gone.

Disclaimer: I'm an accountant (CPA) and I'll never lack for work.

teezer · #11 08-27-2009, 05:54 PM

wanna see your head spin

http://www.usdebtclock.org/

Hatterasguy · #12 08-27-2009, 05:55 PM

Its absolutly a crime what they are doing, more so when you consider all the money coming in. When this thing falls apart...the tree of liberty is going to get well watered.

DieselAddict · #13 08-27-2009, 07:14 PM

Notice how the interest on the debt keeps piling on. This is exactly why we citizens should demand the govt cut spending AND raise taxes, though logically doing that during a recession would be problematic, but it should be done ASAP. One big problem I see is that Americans want all these govt services but don't want to pay for them. They'd rather have a tax cut than a tax increase even though it's gonna cost us more in the long run.

Hatterasguy · #14 08-27-2009, 09:47 PM

If they just spent a bit less at least they wouldn't be digging the hole so fast.

MS Fowler · #15 08-28-2009, 06:36 AM

Will Rogers said that when you find yourself in a hole, its time to stop digging.