American fundamentalism and being 'born again' - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 12-13-2009, 11:22 AM

This business of Uganda proposing a law to make homosexuality a capital crime after a visit by some US Christians associated with a Washington DC fundamentalist religious group has me reading a book called, The Family, Secret Fundamentalism at the Heart of American Power (or something like that). The book is about an organization in Washington DC interested in infusing US national politics and foreign policy with a version of socially conservative fundamentalist religion.
It's got me thinking about the whole issue of being 'born again'. Theoretically, a gun controlling, pro-choice, gay, feminist, atheistic naturalistic euthanizing libertarian could attend a Billy Graham rally, feel the spirit at the altar call and get 'born again' and become a gun loving anti-abortion, homophobic, sexist, anti-euthanizing supernaturalistic theist authoritarian in an instant. Obviously, that does not happen. Yet, people do get 'born again' in American religion. What exactly is going on with this phenomenon? What change is actually occurring? What kinds of people are getting 'born again' and what is happening in their social and mental worlds?

RichC · #2 12-13-2009, 11:29 AM

Fear, and lots of it.

Carleton Hughes · #3 12-13-2009, 11:36 AM

Yeah, fear and failure sets the stage for regression on a massive scale.

One of these years they're going to find a part of the brain that is susceptible to this spiritual nonsense.

kerry · #4 12-13-2009, 11:44 AM

I can see how a failure in business, relationships, or health might make a person susceptible to this kind of change. I wonder if that holds up statistically. Not so sure on fear. Are people who get born again, more fearful people to start with?

Carleton Hughes · #5 12-13-2009, 11:51 AM

I rather think so. I have known a few, some who were successful plus some abysmal failures. The one common thread they had was an inflexible,narrow and closed mind, as if they were clinging desperately to this self-defeating doctrine lest they should morally and intellectually disintegrate.

Needless to say they were quite incapable of sharing,nay understanding other viewpoints that threatened {was gonna say conflicted} with their own.

kerry · #6 12-13-2009, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carleton Hughes

I rather think so. I have known a few, some who were successful plus some abysmal failures. The one common thread they had was an inflexible,narrow and closed mind, as if they were clinging desperately to this self-defeating doctrine lest they should morally and intellectually disintegrate.

Needless to say they were quite incapable of sharing,nay understanding other viewpoints that threatened {was gonna say conflicted} with their own.

I can see how a person like that would be a fundamentalist by birth, but I don't see how it explains being 'born again' since being born again requires some kind of change of some sort in a person who is inflexible. What exactly is that change that is occurring when a person gets 'born again'. Is the change minor or major? Is it as simple as someone just saying , "I'm not going to drink alcohol anymore." and all the other fundamentalist beliefs were pre-existing or is it something more substantial? Could it be a change from flexible to inflexible?

#7 12-13-2009, 12:05 PM

Two observations;

First, this seems to be a fad that runs in cycles of about 10-15 years, usually with some high profile people going public. It almost seems to be a form of generational rebelion.

Second, I do know folks who were "born again" after significant negative events (deaths, health scares, etc.). These types of experieces seem to be triggers for some people.

kerry · #8 12-13-2009, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Two observations;

First, this seems to be a fad that runs in cycles of about 10-15 years, usually with some high profile people going public. It almost seems to be a form of generational rebelion.

Second, I do know folks who were "born again" after significant negative events (deaths, health scares, etc.). These types of experieces seem to be triggers for some people.

Are you saying that people who get born again were raised in families with conservative values, departed from these values in early adulthood and then reverted to them once they got born again?

#9 12-13-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Are you saying that people who get born again were raised in families with conservative values, departed from these values in early adulthood and then reverted to them once they got born again?

I think that is sometimes the case. I know plenty of folks my age (born in the late 50s/early 60s) who went through their "sex, drugs, and rock & roll" phase then ended up close to their parents' belief system.

I do think some people need this type of structure in their lives. Why else would religion still be around in the 21st century?

kerry · #10 12-13-2009, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

I think that is sometimes the case. I know plenty of folks my age (born in the late 50s/early 60s) who went through their "sex, drugs, and rock & roll" phase then ended up close to their parents' belief system.

I do think some people need this type of structure in their lives. Why else would religion still be around in the 21st century?

I agree with both those statements. It seems that being 'born again' is a particularly American phenomenon which has accelerated over the last 150 years or so. (guessing here) It could be that as society has secularized with alcohol, drugs and easy sex available to teenagers in ways not previously existing, that the 'born again' process has to be invented in order to get these wayward young adults back into the family values. Again, I wonder if the statistics bear this out? Are there many people raised in non-conservative families who get born again and if so, are the reasons for their rebirth different than the reasons for the rebirth of people originally raised conservative?

10fords · #11 12-13-2009, 12:42 PM

Almost everyone I have ever met who has been "born again" has had a substance abuse problem. If it works for them great, as long as they don't try to recruit me.

Hatterasguy · #12 12-13-2009, 12:43 PM

Interesting discussion.

I would say its based on fear, but triggered by a major negative life changing event. Like losing someone close to them, or a major health problem/scare.

MS Fowler · #13 12-13-2009, 12:57 PM

When any Christian terminology makes it to pop culture, its time to assess what is being said. The last time "born again" was a popular term, I saw someone selling, " Born Again Used Cars."
Give me a break.

One thing most of these "Born Again" people believe is that they did something to earn God's favor, somehow they are "deserving", or "better".

The Bible teaches quite the opposite--That natural man is "dead"--as in can do nothing to earn God's favor. The Bible is very clear that faith is totally a gift of God--People do not earn a "gift". If its earned, then it is something due someone.

"Born Again" is a proper, biblical term, but when misunderstood, and improperly applied, it becomes meaningless jargon.

kerry · #14 12-13-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

I would say its based on fear, but triggered by a major negative life changing event. Like losing someone close to them, or a major health problem/scare.

Or, in Charles Colson's case, being convicted of a felony and incarcerated. Which reminds me of a fact I had forgotten. Lots of people get born again in prison.

Hatterasguy · #15 12-13-2009, 01:16 PM

Lots of people also join the neo nazi's and gangs in prision.

Major life changing events affect people in different ways. Some deal with them well, others not so.

I think you are either predisposed to it or not, either through your upbringing, life experiances, or outlook.