Stolen Goods

[MTI]

Insurance Company to Auction Recovered Vintage VW Bus For Charity



The fully restored VW was headed to a buyer in Europe, but was seized and discovered to have been stolen 35 years ago. Apparently the buyer in Europe is out over $20K.

[compress ignite]

'learned to drive in one of those!
(First time I ever heard the term "Valve Float")

Somebody around here has one with the "Haight Ashbury",LOVE, PEACE
paint job on a trailer with a tarp on it.
('Just waiting for the "Third, Woodstock" I guess)

[Pavka007]

The bus is listed as a clean title??? How could be if it is been stolen and recovered... even after 34 years??
http://www.copart.com/c2/individualLot.html?lotId=19728389&searchType=onSaleNow

[MTI]

The insurance company obtained title from the legal owner upon settlement of the loss claim. None of the subsequent owners have legal title since it it would have been derived from the thief, who could not pass legal title to the vehicle to anyone.

[Pavka007]

Originally Posted by MTI

The insurance company obtained title from the legal owner upon settlement of the loss claim. None of the subsequent owners have legal title since it it would have been derived from the thief, who could not pass legal title to the vehicle to anyone.

OK I got that but the listing is for a bus with clean CA title, fake or not, the title was issued by CA state... not to mention that even if Allstate hold the ORIGINAL it should be R&R title, because the stolen vehicle has been paid in full to satisfy claim from the original owner.
Do you see what i mean?

[Hatterasguy]

This is BS, allstate pretty much re stole that bus from whoever restored it and bought it.

Their claim should expire after so many years.

[MTI]

Can't steal your own property, right?

[Brian Carlton]

Originally Posted by MTI

The insurance company obtained title from the legal owner upon settlement of the loss claim. None of the subsequent owners have legal title since it it would have been derived from the thief, who could not pass legal title to the vehicle to anyone.

The question is how the first subsequent owner obtained a suitable title to register the vehicle. The title was in the possession of Allstate.

How that fraud was perpetuated is of significant curiosity.


And, yes, some poor slob is out a whole lot of money because of the original fraud.


This fraud, if widely utilized, can be perpetuated on any unsuspecting used car purchaser.

[MTI]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The question is how the first subsequent owner obtained a suitable title to register the vehicle. The title was in the possession of Allstate.

How that fraud was perpetuated is of significant curiosity.


And, yes, some poor slob is out a whole lot of money because of the original fraud.


This fraud, if widely utilized, can be perpetuated on any unsuspecting used car purchaser.

VIN Switch:

VIN Switching is a technique used by thieves to disguise the identity of a stolen vehicle. They will replace the VIN on a stolen vehicle with a VIN that is not associated with an active theft record. The vehicle thief will then try to resell the stolen car to an unsuspecting customer. In addition to manually switching the VIN, some VIN switchers will also develop fraudulent titles and registrations to go along with the vehicle.

Salvage Switch:

A vehicle which is extensively damaged, burned or stripped and deemed not worthy of repair is called "salvaged."

Thieves use a phony name and address to buy a salvaged vehicle solely for its title and Vehicle Identification Number (VIN). They steal a car of the same make and model and switch the VINs -- removing the rectangular VIN plate from the salvaged car and placing it in the stolen car, giving the vehicle a "clean" look. The perpetrators then claim the stolen car is the salvaged one that s been rebuilt, register the car using the same phony name and address, and resell it to an innocent purchaser.

[Pavka007]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The question is how the first subsequent owner obtained a suitable title to register the vehicle. The title was in the possession of Allstate.

How that fraud was perpetuated is of significant curiosity.

And, yes, some poor slob is out a whole lot of money because of the original fraud.

This fraud, if widely utilized, can be perpetuated on any unsuspecting used car purchaser.

Here in Utah there is another legal way you can do this... yes it is 100% legal.
Mechanic Lien... the way it works is simple.
You go to a garage for some service work, you can't pay the bill and mechanics refuses to release the car. The mechanic is allowed to request title under the Mechanics Lien reimbursement.
He apply to DMV Utah for the title to be transferred to him, the waiting period is 45 days and after that the DMV issue the title in his name. So now he can sell the car because the tittle is clean and clear in his name. All the Banks, Credit Unions etc don't like that at all, but they can't do anything about it.
If the "customer" keep the payment on the car for only 2 months they can't go after him after that he claim bankruptcy and they can't even get the car back So as you can imagine they are a lot of people trying to get out of the high payments so they just need to find A friendly mechanic that is ready to pay..let's say $5K cash for a $15K car... Once the garage receive the title they just sell the car for $10K.
So the bottom line... there is a way to obtain legal title easier than everybody think.
That is why Allstate going to auction and they don't really want to deal with all the hassle.
Regardless of everything I think that the last owner will go after them.
Remain to be seen

[MTI]

$29,573.50 and the VW is headed to Florida.

[truckinik]

How could any of these stolen claims even still stand...?

National, International, and all state laws, have statute of limitations for stolen vehicles of only seven years... After that time limit, a vehicle can turn up stolen, and a title can still be acquired by whom ever owns it at the time.

Someone purchased the vehicle 35 years after it was stolen, they must have gotten it with some sort of title...Not that it would even be required anymore anyways by that point. After ten years, you can buy anything you want without a title, and use only a bill of sale for the purchase. Then the DMV will make a new title for said vehicle. A 35 year old vehicle, shouldn't even have raised an eyebrow, and definately should not have been confiscated or impounded....

[MTI]

There are statute of limitations for the criminal act of stealing a car, but the title to a vehicle does not expire. So, while a person would not be able to be proscecuted for "grand theft auto" . . . that doesn't mean they get to keep the car or to profit from its sale by stashing it away until the SOL runs out.

Further, if the vehicle registration has been subsequently obtained via fraud or altering the VIN . . . legal title to the car doesn't pass to subsequent buyers.

[Sev]

Originally Posted by Brian Carlton

The question is how the first subsequent owner obtained a suitable title to register the vehicle. The title was in the possession of Allstate.

How that fraud was perpetuated is of significant curiosity.


And, yes, some poor slob is out a whole lot of money because of the original fraud.


This fraud, if widely utilized, can be perpetuated on any unsuspecting used car purchaser.

yup, just what i was thinking. the dmv shouldn't be issuing titles for a VIN if that VIN was reported as being stolen at some point, without it being cleared by the police department who handled the stolen car case. or a national or state registry for stolen vehicles

[Chas H]

Some states do not issue titles for older vehicles. It's possible to register a car with a faked bill of sale.