Originally Posted by kknudson (Post 2369989)

First I don't think the majority of the college grads I've dealt with really got their moneys worth.
They have the book learning, well some do, but little or no practical experience.
I always loved when they had a problem, threw fixes at it until they gave up, came to me. In less time than they spent on the first 'fix', I'd show them the problem and outline the solution.
Half the time they still came back to me to help with the solution.

Oh and then my fav was an MBA (recent grad) that I had to explain what ROI meant, fortunately in front of the CEO(I did try cover for him). He'd been with the company for years, got his degree via tutition reimbursment, he was gone several weeks later. Oh he was my boss at the time, a nice guy, but a very bad boss.


IMHO half (problably more) of the problem with rising college costs goes back to the government, match it to the housing bubble but I don't know how this one unwinds.

The more grants, low interest loans, tax breaks etc the government hands out, the more the colleges raise their price, so the government throws more grants etc, so the colleges raise their rates, so the .....

Part of it is basic economics, the law of supply and demand, as the government throws more money for kids to go to college, more go, again ...

And how many grads do you know that actually work in their field after a few years.

Originally Posted by 732002 (Post 2370037)

return on investment?

I don't see the gov handing out money for college.
FAFSA estimated we could afford a massive amount, seems they
look at your home equity, sure we could sell our house to pay for college

Originally Posted by dynalow (Post 2369553)

"Well, I'm going to grad school and if I can get a job paying $100,000 when I finish, I'll be ok!" I was left speechless!:eek: Her major was something in literature or language iirc.[/I][/B]

Originally Posted by BodhiBenz1987 (Post 2370123)

If I had the energy, I'd laugh. Yeah ... lit major probably not going to land that 100k gig. Ever. Let alone right out of college.

Originally Posted by okyoureabeast (Post 2370041)

College was never meant as a means of job training. It was meant as a "pursuit" of truth and knowledge to broadly apply that knowledge to problems one may encounter in his or her life.

Sadly like I said earlier undergraduate and to some point graduate level degrees have become nothing more then pieces of paper that allow you to bypass the first level of HR pruning.

Originally Posted by dynalow (Post 2369553)

My kids are finished with college, but how are you college boys...and your parents...getting through the process?


I met a young girl a few months ago who was going to graduate with loans over $100,000. When I asked her about working and repaymenty plans, her reply was: "Well, I'm going to grad school and if I can get a job paying $100,000 when I finish, I'll be ok!" I was left speechless!:eek: Her major was something in literature or language iirc.

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 2370250)

An BS in EE over here starts at $55k. That's not bad for a four year. A Master's in Chem. E starts at $65k, a PhD around $70k.

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 2370250)

You college bashers have not seen the good side of college. Most science related jobs require an advanced degree. All of science is built on foundations established hundreds, or even thousands, of years ago. There is no Physics without Archimedes, there is no Math without Al Jabr, no Logic without Aristotle.

Originally Posted by tbomachines (Post 2370267)

Hmm...I seem to remember this conversation :D

Working working, paying off the loans little by little, thats all I can do. My GF (whom I believe you are referring to above) still can't find a job anywhere, and even the connections through school to internships are generally unpaid (she is psychology major). One day both me and her will be pretty well paid, but both have to fund PhD's to get there...its definitely a challenge. Doesn't help that we go to school with a lot of rich spoiled kids either :rolleyes:

edit: I should add that I do believe that every penny spent on my education has been 100% worth it. College helped me grow up and realize how much I love my field. 5 years ago I never would have thought I'd have a liberal arts degree, or even be headed to grad school for that matter.

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2370318)

Those numbers sound about right. The problem with engineering pay is that it flattens out at 10-15 years for most people (very low six figures). At that point you need to go into management or go out on your own to grow your income. I worked for a consulting company for 18 years, then went out on my own to do what I wanted and to avoid having to become a manager.

Originally Posted by Kuan (Post 2370467)

I think that's just the natural progression. Some companies have different management tracks so you can get into the technical side or the business side. From what I see, technical manager or director is really cool. You get to go test new equipment and technology, break things and not have to pay for them, oversee a bunch of lab monkeys, etc. :D

Originally Posted by dynalow (Post 2370455)

Tom,
I hope I didn't offend you by relating our conversation. I am not being critical of her (and her parents) decision. Sadly, there are probably thousands like her graduating every year. I was stunned by the magnitude of the debt she's leaving there with. I'm just pissed off that colleges fill the rooms and giant lecture halls with students, take your (borrowed) money, hand you a diploma, then turn around and ask you to give to the Endowment Fund. :rolleyes:

With third party direct pay (Hello Mr. Pell) or financing (Hello Messrs. Perkins and Stafford) available, colleges for the last few decades have had little incentive to keep costs low and tuition reasonable. I also think there is a prestige premium built in to the tuition. Probably anywhere from 10 to 30% depending on how "big" the name or how high they are in College Rankings by USNWR. Do you think if the school was, say, ranked number 20 instead of where it is, it would be able to charge as much as it does? I don't.

I also sympathize with today's graduates who have to look for work in a very, very difficut job climate. One that in my opinion will be very challenging for 3 to 5 years. Lots of old timers still hanging on out of economic necessity.


Happy New Year to you both :).... and good ridance to this sorry decade.:(

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2369718)

It shows me as an employer that you can commit to something and achieve it. That is something important to me. I would rather see that as opposed to somebody who has flights of fancy.

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2369675)

I wouldn't recommend doing the community collage route unless it is necessary due to cost or grades. Community collage is not the same experience as a four-year college, and many students will lose a year due to transfer credits not being accepted. For some people it's the only way to able to obtain a degree, but it's not optimum.

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 2370922)

If 2-year community colleges aren't "real schools," as you stated in another post.....what are they?

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2369673)

Regardless of work plans, I would recommend almost everyone having some post-secondary education. Not everyone wants/needs a degree, but having some formal education is always a good thing. Many young people (including myself, at the time) thought of college as a trade school, that is a missed opportunity to actually learn something.

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2370928)

I was responding to another post that used the term "real schools," I have nothing against community colleges; they provide opportunities to millions of people who would not be able to attend 4-year college/university for various reasons.

They do have a reputation of being the "13th grade," because they tend to lack the traditional college experience. They also tend to be very vocational, not that there's anything wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy (Post 2369911)

State schools are becoming popular because people can afford them.

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 2370916)

"As an employer," you're lookin' in the wrong place if you think education assures you of anything they'll do in your employ. Previous OTJT is the highest form of assurance. -Actual performance trumps 'education' every time. Ask me how I know.

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 2370930)

Not true. Wasting time in post-secondary education did little for my self-employed career as a sales agency principle, in manufacturer's representation. I learned zilch in the 3 years spent in college environments that I use in my company. I'm starting my 37th year next week as an agency principle, I might add.

If you believe it does, then you must outline exactly what it does do for any individual. What ifs and maybes don't cut it.

Originally Posted by Craig (Post 2370958)

I happen to think "non-vocational" education is just as important as learning a marketable trade; not everyone will agree.

My grandfather was very successful with a 6th grade education.

Originally Posted by TheDon (Post 2370945)

CC is a joke and a waste of time.. I found that out the hard way.

Originally Posted by aklim (Post 2370960)

I would say that it depends. If you were like me when I graduated, I think not. I had a wife who was legally unable to get a job and I had no real funds except a small stipend that was run out, had to play musical credit cards to get some food till I got a job. OTOH, if you have a positive bank balance and/or assurance of funds, sure.

Originally Posted by Skid Row Joe (Post 2370967)

Any smart company will start their new-hires at the bottom, and let them work their way up. Especially college grads. There is no way to quantify their contribution to a company with their degree. Pedigree in education means nothing - doing the job well, and learning fast means everything to an employer. OTJT as an intern might give an indication of their potential contribution as well. If a college grad has no OTJT, that's not my problem as an employer, when I can find people with it.