In terms of ownership cost, reliability, and economy - which would you buy?
 

Audi TT (first gen)
Porsche Boxster (986, first gen)
Mercedes SL500 (R129, '96-'00)

I don't know if I'm comparing different fruits here, but based on market value, the cost of buying any of these cars is about the same. I'm seriously thinking of selling my beloved '90 190E soon and that should give me some cash to offset the purchasing price of a replacement car. I have two cars, so I'm not in a huge rush to get a replacement car after selling the 190E. Right now I'm beginning a "scratching the surface" search into another car. Originally I was set on getting a '96+ R129, but now I'm infatuated with the Boxster and only recently the TT. I think I'm fixed on getting a roadster sports car. No more sedans or "practical" cars. I already have a Volve 240 wagon to do my "dirty work."

What I like about the M-B is that I'm familiar with ownership and maintenance. I know the R129 is leap years and many classes ahead of the humble 190E, but having done some research on this car already, I think I won't get too many surprises in owning one.

The Boxster, on the other hand, I heard is expensive to fix. Cost of ownership is a bit more expensive, but then I need to confirm this. Owning an R129 is just as expensive, I'm sure. Also, I've no clue on how to buy a Boxster, much less any Porsche model. Pricing for Boxsters is a bit weird. You can find a great deal on one model year and on another model of the same year the price is high. My budget for now is limited to the '98-'00 model years.

I really like the Audi TT. The first gen has held up in style and certainly has aged well. Again, know nothing of Audi TTs, but I'm begining my research. I like it because it's probably the least expensive of the three when it comes to later model years. I can probably get an '03 for what a '96 SL500 or a '98 Boxster costs. Plus, it's great on gas I've read. That's a huge factor, but I'm willing to go with a Boxster or R129 if I can find a great deal.

So what would you guys get?

Some models of Boxsters can have serious engine problems. You really should visit some forums and check it out.

I have no basis to compare these three, they are completely different types of vehicles. Which one do you want to own?

The R129 is the only car I'd own out of the group.

To me the Boxster is a girls car, and the TT is a NJ metro car.

This is a joke, right?
 

What do you expect to hear from a bunch of MB addicts? BTW, I also vote for the Benz.

I'd look for a six cylinder 129, perhaps. though the v8s are pretty rugged too. My 500sec single cam engine was as bulletproof as my 617s.

If you care about cost, buy a newer ricer clone of one of them. Personally, none of them are very interesting cars. I would buy an air cooled Porsche or an older SL before any of those.

Audi TT;)

Relatively trouble free car. Some strange items like sensors go out, but you're talking $50 every 50-70K miles. I consider maintenance since they take like 5 minutes to change. I got mine with 42'XXX and now it has 122'XXX. Regular fluids and maintenance, timing belt and clutch/flywheel is all it's had except the upgrades and mods.

It's as basic and usable as a VW, but really nice, and AWD. Parts are usually pretty cheap, mods are all over the place including specialists in TT's only. Lots of colors to choose from. Drives sturdy like a Benz, but smaller and more agile.

Gas mileage, stock, I averaged a hair over 25 mixed, got as many as like 30-32? When I went to San Diego and hit the cruise control. Even still, with 22 psi and ~290 hp, I get 20-23mpg mixed driving. At this point, mine probably accelerates faster than either of those other cars, if that matters, and the mods are actually pretty tame. For $390 you can get a ECU reflash and go from 225 to 264 and 280 lbs of torque.

I'll sell you mine but it sounds like a tractor at idle...

Oh yeah. :D

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...4/IMG_6001.jpg

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n...umpi84/TT1.jpg

I have heard from a TT owner - "the only thing that works well in my TT are the hazard lights". Edmunds.com reviews seem to back up reliability issues with the TT. The 129 is a decent car, and with any of the three make sure you do your homework to ensure it has been well taken care of.

I really like all of them. After all these years, I still like the styling of the R129. The 986 Boxster (see, I'm even now able to use chassis numbers to differentiate!) still looks sharp, and it's a draw with the 987 with its slightly updated look. But if I had the cash, I'd definitely go for the 987. I've never put much thought into the TT, but a random look at Craigslist and AutoTrader sorta got me liking the car. Price is right too. What I like about the TT is the side profile, love the roofline. Love your car, Austin. Silver is what I'd get. I'm really digging the 2-seater, sporty, compact look.

Well, as far as choosing one of these cars (and right now I'm just entertaining the idea), it just comes down to initial cost of buying and cost of ownership.

I know the Porsche is probably out of my league as far as ownership cost is concerned, but at this stage I'm open to the idea of buying one if I find a good one with a good price.

I'm actually reading good things about the TT. The price is within range, and I'm not in a rush, so I can always wait for prices to drop even more. Don't care for the fact that a newer model came out, still like the 1st gen design.

THe R129, what more can I say...one of the last true M-B when engineers had the final say in making it.

It's good that you are not in a rush. Drive plenty of examples of each and you will decide what you really want; then go shopping for the best car you can get for you budget.

As far as the Boxster goes....

You can go to www.pelicanparts.com and see and/or ask about them on their forums.

I do know that even simple engine work must be done from below, so you will need a way to get under it. You might do a little research on blown head gaskets, too.

Early cars did not have door locks that you could unlock with a key (remote only) so if your car battery went dead you were locked out. Porsche came up with a retro-fit on this so if you are looking at an early car be sure to ask about this.

Porsche maintenance = money......

The Audi TT is cool, but it's a four-cyl and was built by Audi - not exactly reliable.

The first-gen Boxster had ALL KINDS of issues; best to be avoided.

The SL would be my choice of these three, but even then I'd not buy it. Do more research and come up with better choices. Toss in a BMW Z4, for example.

Having driven R129's, a 911 Cab, and Z4 I'd say if you actualy plan on driving the car the R129 would be the most comfortable.


Out of the three its probably the most comfortable road trip car. The Porsche and BMW ride like they have 2x4's for shocks.

Insted of the Boxster I'd highly recomend the 911, its a fantastic machine. :cool:

I'd 86 the Audi off the bat. 1.8T engine, cheap upgrade chip to 200+HP but not that reliable. The Boxster looks way better than the R129 IMO. The 129 is a little bit dated in styling.

Audi=VW=No way I'd want one. Too many problems with that chassis in my experience, and VW quality is an oxymoron especially in that year range.
The Porsche is nice, but again there is the cost. A great deal of the parts are dealer only. Ride is harsh, but they are very responsive. A lot of people complain about the oversteer issues, but if you're good with the gas pedal you're fine.
The SL is quite nice as well, but I believe in order to have one you must wear a button down shirt with your chest hair sticking out, a large gold medallion around your neck, and have your hair slicked back.

I don't know about the TT, other than it being ugly. The Boxster is nothing special aesthetically either, but as others have said, I don't think the mid-engined six is friendly to DIY'ers.

The Mercedes is tried, true and tested. It looks nice, it runs fast, it is comfortable, competent and reliable. Parts are available everywhere, and hey...It's an SL!

Thanks for the responses, guys.

The more I think about it, the more I realize owning a Porsche is out of my league. I've no Porsche ownership experience and don't know anyone who owns one. Now hearing about the Boxster having particular issues is scaring me away. And not to mention the fact that you can't wrench on it because it's so complicated of a car. Interest is waning (again), but I'm sure when I'm ready to buy the interest might come back, as it has before.

I didn't realize the TT has rear seats. I thought it was strictly a 2-seater. I'm curious why all the hate on Audis? I know they had a bad rep in the 80s and 90s, but I know the TT and the A4 were suppose to bring the name back to respectability. Yesterday I was cleaning my room and realize I had some car rating books and mags and found a few TT reviews. They were all praising the TT, particularily its styling, which I think has held up well. Being a VW of sorts, wouldn't it be deemed a reliable car that you can work on?

About the R129. This might sound stupid, but in the back of my head I'm thinking it's too much of a car for me. I feel like I have no business driving, much less owning one. Only successful people or people born with a silver spoon in their mouth drive this car. What's a plebian like me driving one? :P But really, I've always liked it from a styling and engineering point of view. Initially it was my main choice, if not the only choice.

I've never been a big fan of the BMW Z-series, so that's not a choice even if it's better in some regards.

Right now I'm leaning towards the TT because it seems to be the car that looks like you can do some of your own work on. Also, it's the most affordable as far as later years are concerned. Another factor is that it doesn't seem to be associated with the tuner culture. It's a car for mature people, sorta like the R129. :P

The real issues with the TT are the platform it's built off of. It's the same one as the New Beetle, Golf IV, Jetta IV, and a couple Seat and Skoda cars.
My ex had a New Beetle Convertible, nothing but issues with that car. Excessive body flex would actually crack the windshield, more squeaks and rattles than my 40year old F250, and non-stop issues with the auto drop power windows not working and tearing the weatherstripping around the top. Also, the headliner tension strap broke on the second or third time the top was put down, jamming it in the halfway position. It took six months to get the part from VW (complete top replacement) and get it installed, and then it broke again just outside of warranty.
The interior materials felt cheap, the seat heaters burned out, and the NVH levels of the ride were a bit excessive, mostly in chassis flex. Every bump you felt three or four ripples afterwards, and my 70 Galaxie would outhandle it.
The six speed tiptronic had it's fair share of issues, mostly in the integration with the electronic throttle. Going about 20-25 on an on-ramp, stomp on it and the thing would have to wait to figure out what to do. Usually it would wait about half a second, then go WOT in the current gear (4th at that speed), then slowly downshift to 3rd, 2nd, 1st with the engine nearly at redline and then it would go back to second and start accelerating. That almost got us run over in Chicago, but the dealership said it was normal operation. Both low beams went out at the same time, and the headlight retainers were a royal pain to get too, so she took it to the dealership. They broke the headlight retainers, then had the balls to say it came in that way. $400 for new headlamp assemblies-

FROSTY
I was in a similar situation as you. I sold my 67 230SL about 2 years ago (had it for over 20 years). After a while I was itching for something fun. Looked at the Boxster, Vette,
TT, and S2000. After driving and reseaching each, found S2000 and love It. No Maintance, Faster than most(0-60 5.5sec) handles unbelievable, and can be had for reasonable Price.
Still have 85 280CE
Good luck

The TT doesn't generally suffer from any of that actually. Even comes stock with am upper strut bar. That Beetle was probably built in Mexico or some place. The TT is made in Hungary. It basically has all the differences one would expect from a $16K starting price vs. $45'000(new).

On edmunds, the user submitted reviews lean toward the 9.0. The VAG group hate is just more of that tribalism. I only wanted a TT for looks until I drove one. Then took Benz off the list and the only competitor for me was the new GTO. A veedub is just tons more fun to own/drive than a Mercedes. Every single one of my friends wants to be in line to take mine over if I ever get something else.

My father in law who'se played with sports cars his whole life - usually european ones - just dumped a boxster. Said it's the worst piece of junk he's ever owned. Engine was a nightmare to work on but no nearly as bad as the chronically unreliable soft top which kept getting stuck and had to be taken to the dealer to be rebuilt on numerous occasions. He said he should never have traded his SL for it. The Mercedes was a vastly better car all round.

- Peter.

What killed the Boxster for me is engine access. I don't know about the old ones but on the new ones I looked at you can't get to the engine. Its just a sheet of aluminum that I assume and hope unbolts somehow so you can. If not that it must all be from underneath, and in that case you would need a lift.


Porsche even puts hose connections in the trunk so every 15k miles the dealer can suck the oil out and pump more in. I guess the oil filter only gets changed every 30k.:rolleyes:


At least on the 911 you can get to the motor. Still tight, compared to the R129 which would be a dream to work on in comparision.

I agree with forgetting the P-wagen - although the Boxster would be my Porsche of choice, they are still more "race bred" than the other 2 options.

From there - its easy - if you want a go kart/stick shift - buy the TT, if you'd rather have a decent ride/nicer interior - grab the SL. Forget the SL-silver spoon linkage - you dont get behind the wheel to drive a repuation - you get a car to drive THE CAR, and the SL is going to be a nice ride (big V8...)

Or better yet - what kind of transmission do you want ? a stick - get teh TT. If an auto is ok, get the SL - you'll want the big motor with an auto anyway =) The SL will be more liveable on long trips if you plan on doing such.

Realisitically, any of these cars could cost you nothing or thousands to repair at any given time. Both have decent forum's for support. As a VW/Audi fan I wonder if there are 2 Audi factories - one makes vehicles that go forever with no issues, the other does the opposite - so its really a crap shoot with anything you buy.

I'd go for the SL. Forget the Haters....

-John

My mother's Jetta TDI (bought new in 2000) has almost 200k on the clock with very minimal problems, whereas there are hundreds of horror stories about one repair after the next with those cars. I think it is just hit or miss, when it hits you you're practically driving a lemon. I have heard the same criticism of the TTs, which is why I posted it as a cause of concern above. They may have a 9.0 rating for those that perform well, but the bad ones are a good laundry list of pricey repairs--May be due to multiple types of chain reaction failures as well...my experience is mainly anecdotal so take it with a grain of salt.

Myself, I'm (trying) to save up for a R129 but I have college loans and a w126 diesel swap that take complete precedence over it so it may be a while. Think they are the best looking cars of the 1990s (followed by 3000GT/Stealths :D) and the prices have dropped to affordable levels.