Dept of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics

Highlights:

16.9M Workers in 2009 had union represenation

There are more public sector (gov employees) than private sector union members.

New York has more union members; South Carolina has the fewest

Among full time salary workers, union members had median usual weekly earnings of $908, while those who were not represented by unions had median weekly earnings of $710.

By age, the union membership rate was highest among workers 55 to 64 years old (16.6 percent). The lowest union membership rate occurred among those ages 16 to 24 (4.7 percent).

Is that $908 before or after the mandatory union dues are sucked out?

__________________
MB-less

Ah yes, somemore anti-union nonsense from people who have no clue what their talking about. I pay about $2000 a year for excellent medical, dental, vision , excellent pension and not to bad of a hourly wage. How

about you I have no problems paying union dues

I worked at a union shop as summer help so I was non-union and got yelled at my first day by the union shift representative for working too hard and trying to take everyone's job.

I found that the union kept fighting for lazy and worthless workers who didn't do their jobs. But the management couldn't fire them because the union wouldn't let them.

Yeah, right never heard that story before

Funny how many times do you have to hear a story before you start to belive it?

Unions are not so great if you aren't in them or have to deal with them from a management perspective.

I pay $792 a year for my self and wife with no union. What's your point?

__________________
Sent from an agnostic abacus

2014 C250 21,XXX my new DD ** 2013 GLK 350 18,000 Wife's new DD**

- With out god, life is everything.
- God is an ever receding pocket of scientific ignorance that's getting smaller and smaller as time moves on..." Neil DeGrasse Tyson
- You can pray for me, I'll think for you.
- When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours.

Average salary in my State which forbids collective bargaining for my profession is around $46k. Last time I checked a strongly unionized state it was $98k.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

It's pretty easy to see what industrial work is like without unions. Look at third world factories. Do you think US working class life would be what it is without unions? Lot of US manufacturers move their work to cheaper non-unionized labor markets the first chance they get.

The problem is inherent within capitalism and whatever problems that unions bring with them don't arise out of the blue. They arise because the class interests of workers and owners are different. It's easy for the owning class to unite since they are relatively few in number. Workers require much more organization and coordination to resist the power of the owners.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

I think most of those issues were addressed many years ago through labor laws (which the unions of the time were instrumental in passing). I also think that those laws now provide more than adequate protection for hourly workers. I'm less concerned about exempt employees, who are usually more able to take care of themselves. In other words, I believe they have outlived their usefulness.

Whether that is a good or bad thing depends which side of the transaction you are on.

Do you think the quality of the service provided in your state is proportional to the difference in salary?

Do you see a large number of people leaving the state to teach in states with higher average salaries?

Would you be willing to pay double the tuition to send your child to a school in a state with higher salaries?

$109 vs $136 per credit hour in the states in question. So, yes I would.

I don't have the data but it would be interesting to compare administrator salaries in those two states.

__________________
1977 300d 70k--sold 08
1985 300TD 185k+
1984 307d 126k--sold 8/03
1985 409d 65k--sold 06
1984 300SD 315k--daughter's car
1979 300SD 122k--sold 2/11
1999 Fuso FG Expedition Camper
1993 GMC Sierra 6.5 TD 4x4
1982 Bluebird Wanderlodge CAT 3208--Sold 2/13

More likely it is the gross wage before any deductions.

A very wise man once taught what a Union is.

A union is a business, the purpose of that business is to keep the union EMPLOYEEs, NOT the union Members Employed.

Here is a real interesting article about how the Union Employee pension fund compares to the Union Members pension fund.
Both in investments made, and funding level.

http://www.forbes.com/forbes/2009/0803/private-equity-why-several-unions-invested-in-one-fund.html

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

That is partly true, and partly anti union propaganda.

At the very least, uninformed painting with a broad brush.

~~~~

Unions are closed shop and open shop. Open shops allow workers to join or not.

For many years in the 1980's and 1990's I was a shop steward (unpaid) for the SEIU local #290 that represented city workers employed in the City and County of San Francisco's Municipal and Superior courts.


It was a closed shop, meaning that whether or not you chose to be a MEMBER of the union, your union dues WERE deducted from your paycheck.


What infuriated me most, about Union duties that devolved to me, was that I had to advocate for ALL members of the Union with grievances, even for members CLEARLY lazy, or that had NO valid grievance, along for good workers that had very valid grievances, that I saw.

And believe me, clueless, and abusive managers and supervisors committed managerial sins on a daily basis, and for this, the Union really had a purpose and raison d' etre.

Likewise, working hours, vacation, sick pay, benefits, comparable salary surveys, and pay step increases and overtime/compensatory time, layoff and discipline and non discriminatory practices, policies and retirement benefits, were *ALL* on the table in Contract negotiations, which occurred every two years in San Francisco, and I personally attended several, as a Union bargaining agent (also for no pay - I never received a cent for anything I did for the Union). Sometimes they went on for weeks and weeks, all day every day, in search of a fair collective bargaining outcome fair in light of all extrinsic and intrinsic circumstances.

Contract negotiations with the City of SF (representives for the City of SF, and management were from the mayor's office) were supposed to be fair, and based on economic conditions, but usually were contentious.

~~~~
Based on my experiences firsthand in about 20 years,....

I think some of the remarks made above border on ignorance of union activity and frankly sound defamatory and ignorant, and ONLY focus on Union abuse and instances of fraud and criminal activity, but generally this is a miniscule fraction of Union activity in general.

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)