Remembering the Iwo Jima Marine flag raisers.

[dynalow]

I'm sure most of you know some of the basics of the Mt. Suribachi flag raising history. The fact that there were actually two "raisings" on FEb. 23, 1945. The fact that Joe Rosenthal caught the second raising quite by chance and didn't even know about it until some time later.
Many of you I'm sure also know that three of the Marines in the second photo didn't live through the Iwo battle. The other three were immediately returned home for bond tours and war promotion. What I didn't know and what you may not know is that three of the six men who raised the first flag were also killed on Iwo Jima

This year is the 65th anniversary of the Iwo Jima battle. This week (and month) also marks the 65th anniversary of the death of those six Marines.
Ironic and sad that half of each group were killed within days.

1st flag raising Marines KIA on Iwo:
Pvt. Henry Hansen. 3/1/45
Pvt. Ernest "Boots" Thomas. 3/1/45
Pvt. Louis C Charlo. 3/2/45

2nd flag raising Marines KIA on Iwo:
Sgt. Mike Strank. 3/1/45
Pvt. Harlon Block. 3/1/45
Pvt. Franklin Sousley. 3/21/45

Finally, Sgt. William Genaust, who filmed the second flag raising, was killed on 3/4/45.

65 years ago this week.

RIP

[LUVMBDiesels]

Amazing men - our Spartans!
RIP Brave Men!

[MS Fowler]

Its hard, if not impossible to imagine the fight on Iwo. Glad I never had to face it, or anything remotely similar.
At least then we had real enemies who wore uniforms so we could know who they were.

[JiveTurkey]

We will never have another Generation of Americans quite like the Men who gave their lives for our freedom in the second world war. For one brief and spectacular moment in history everyone in this country came together and gave everything they had for the sake of Freedom and Righteousness. Virtually everything back home was converted to in some way contribute to the war effort, and nobody *****ed, pissed, or moaned (much.0 We can only hope to produce Americans of this caliber once again.

[MS Fowler]

Originally Posted by JiveTurkey

We will never have another Generation of Americans quite like the Men who gave their lives for our freedom in the second world war. For one brief and spectacular moment in history everyone in this country came together and gave everything they had for the sake of Freedom and Righteousness. Virtually everything back home was converted to in some way contribute to the war effort, and nobody *****ed, pissed, or moaned (much.0 We can only hope to produce Americans of this caliber once again.

I'm not sure we want to produce Americans of that caliber, again.
The cost was extremely high. The circumstances that led to those great people were terrible in an absolute sense.
I hope we never NEED to be those people, again.
I wish we could raise our children, and grandchildren in a world w/o the threats of tyrants and despots. I wish for lazy summer days, lying in the grass, watching clouds, or allowing children to have a full and wonderful childhood.
Ther problem is that such idyllic situations provide the opportunity for tyrants to persue thier evil plans.
Eternal vigilence is the price of freedom.

[Ara T.]

Originally Posted by JiveTurkey

We will never have another Generation of Americans quite like the Men who gave their lives for our freedom in the second world war. For one brief and spectacular moment in history everyone in this country came together and gave everything they had for the sake of Freedom and Righteousness. Virtually everything back home was converted to in some way contribute to the war effort, and nobody *****ed, pissed, or moaned (much.0 We can only hope to produce Americans of this caliber once again.

How do you know no one *****ed or moaned about not being able to buy whatever they wanted? Were you around then? You seem to have a very idyllic notion of the past despite being in your late teens/early 20's. Worse than my grampa. I bet you think 16 year olds in the 60's were buying Shelby GT500's too.

I would contend the point that the US entered WW2 for the sake of freedom and righteousness. We would have joined the Europeans a lot sooner if that were the case. We were retaliating against the Japanese's bombing. That said, the stuff those soldiers went through, the beach landings, parachut drops, etc, i cannot imagine. Incredible... I'm always amazed anyone could have survived WW2

[dannym]

Ever see Flags of our Fathers?
I believe it's historically correct.

Danny

[Hatterasguy]

I had the honor of meeting the guy who wasn't in any of the pictures but got sent down the mountain to go get the flag they raised. He said it was the walk of his life because the Japanese didn't get the memo that the mountain was liberated and on his way back they started walking motar and artillery rounds in on him. One blew him in the air and almost killed him, but he said he had the flag tucked in his shirt so it didn't get dirty/bloody. Made it to the top of the hill, and later got some medals for his bravery.

I met him about 10 years ago he might be dead now, but he said they were still pulling chunks of metal out of him from that island.

[Pooka]

As I recall a number of men carried small flags with them to display when they had taken a position. It was a lot lighter than a radio to carry and 'flashed' the message to more people sooner.

The first flag was so far away that not everyone could see it, so a larger one had to be placed there.

How would you like to have been the guy Hat was talking about? There you are, on top of the hill, having done everything necessary to get there, and someone turns to you and asks if you would mind running back down the hill to get a bigger flag and then running back up.

Sometimes you just gotta do what you gotta do.

[Hatterasguy]

Just like going to the store to get a gallon of milk...with thousands of pissed off Japanese shooting everything they have at you!

Don't forget they had that entire island pre sighted in too...they were not guessing.

[davidmash]

I do not have time to look right now but I seem to recall there was something more tot he story about the flag it self. Some general or something wanted some special flag or something and peoples (GI's) lives were put at risk for this persons vanity or something. May be someone here knows what I am talking about. I'll see if I can find it later.

[JollyRoger]

Originally Posted by davidmash

I do not have time to look right now but I seem to recall there was something more tot he story about the flag it self. Some general or something wanted some special flag or something and peoples (GI's) lives were put at risk for this persons vanity or something. May be someone here knows what I am talking about. I'll see if I can find it later.

IIRC, some general wanted the original flag, so they sent a platoon up their to get it, and they replaced it with a larger flag, and it was the second raising that was actually photographed.

[suginami]

More men died in Iwo Jima than died in Normandy.

[dynalow]

Originally Posted by JollyRoger

IIRC, some general wanted the original flag, so they sent a platoon up their to get it, and they replaced it with a larger flag, and it was the second raising that was actually photographed.

this is from Wiki.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raising_the_Flag_on_Iwo_Jima

Raising the first flag

Lowery's most widely circulated picture of the first flag raising. This picture is usually captioned as: 1st Lt. Harold G. Schrier with Platoon Sergeant Ernest I. Thomas, Jr. (both seated), PFC James Michels (in foreground with carbine), Sergeant Henry O. Hansen (standing, wearing soft cap), Corporal Charles W. Lindberg (standing, extreme right), on Mount Suribachi at the first flag raising. However, PFC Raymond Jacobs disputed these identifications,[3] and asserted that it should be: Pfc James Robeson (lower left corner; not visible in this cropped version of the photo), Lt. Harold Schrier (sitting behind his legs), Pfc Raymond Jacobs (carrying radio), Sgt. Henry Hansen (cloth cap), unknown (lower hand on pole), Sgt Ernest Thomas (back to camera), Phm2c John Bradley (helmet above Thomas), Pfc James Michels (with carbine), Cpl Charles Lindberg (above Michels).The famous picture taken by Rosenthal actually captured the second flag-raising event of the day. A U.S. flag was first raised atop Suribachi soon after it was captured early in the morning (around 10:20) of February 23, 1945. 2nd Battalion Commander Chandler Johnson ordered Captain Dave E. Severance to send a platoon to go take the mountain.[4] Severance, the commander of Easy Company (2nd Battalion, 28th Marines, 5th Marine Division), ordered First Lieutenant Harold G. Schrier to lead the patrol. Just before Schrier was to head up the mountain Commander Chandler Johnson handed him a flag saying, "if you get to the top put it up." Johnson's adjutant, second lieutenant Greeley Wells, had taken the 54 by 28 inches (140 by 71 cm) American flag from their transport ship, the USS Missoula (APA-211).[5] The patrol reached the top without incident and the flag was raised, and photographed by Staff Sergeant Louis R. Lowery, a photographer with Leatherneck magazine.[6][7][8] Others present at this first flag raising included Corporal Charles W. Lindberg, Platoon Sergeant Ernest I. Thomas Jr., Sergeant Henry O. "Hank" Hansen, Private Gene Marshall (sometimes disputed as Raymond Jacobs), and Private First Class James Michels.[9] This flag was too small, however, to be seen easily from the nearby landing beaches.

The Secretary of the Navy, James Forrestal, had decided the previous night that he wanted to go ashore and witness the final stage of the fight for the mountain. Now, under a stern commitment to take orders from Howlin' Mad Smith, the secretary was churning ashore in the company of the blunt, earthy general. Their boat touched the beach just after the flag went up, and the mood among the high command turned jubilant. Gazing upward, at the red, white, and blue speck, Forrestal remarked to Smith: "Holland, the raising of that flag on Suribachi means a Marine Corps for the next five hundred years."

Forrestal was so taken with fervor of the moment that he decided he wanted the Suribachi flag as a souvenir. The news of this wish did not sit well with 2nd Battalion Commander Chandler Johnson, whose temperament was every bit as fiery as Howlin Mad's. 'To hell with that!' the colonel spat when the message reached him. The flag belonged to the battalion, as far as Johnson was concerned. He decided to secure it as soon as possible, and dispatched his assistant operations officer, Lieutenant Ted Tuttle,[10] to the beach to scare up a replacement flag. As an afterthought, Johnson called after Tuttle "And make it a bigger one."[11]

The roar of the Marines on the islands and ship horns blasting away alerted the Japanese who up to this point had stayed in their cave bunkers. The Americans quickly found themselves under fire from Japanese troops but were able to quickly eliminate the threat with the only casualty being Lowery's camera.[12]

Raising the second flag


On orders from Colonel Chandler Johnson, passed on by Captain Severance, Sergeant Michael Strank, Corporal Harlon H. Block, Private First Class Franklin R. Sousley and Private First Class Ira H. Hayes spent the morning of the 23rd laying a telephone wire to the top of Suribachi. Severance also dispatched Private First Class Rene A. Gagnon, a runner, to the command post for fresh SCR-300 walkie-talkie batteries.


US postage stamp, 1945 issue, commemorating Battle of Iwo Jima.Meanwhile, according to the official Marine Corps history, Tuttle had found a larger (96-by-56 inch) flag in nearby Tank Landing Ship LST 779, made his way back to the command post, and given it to Johnson. Johnson, in turn, gave it to Gagnon with orders to take it back up Suribachi and raise it.[13] The official Marine Corps history of the event is that Tuttle received the flag from Ensign Alan Wood of LST 779, who in turn had received the flag from a supply depot in Pearl Harbor. However, the Coast Guard Historian's Office supports claims made by Robert Resnick, who served aboard LST 758. "Before he died in November 2004, Resnick said Gagnon came aboard LST-758 the morning of February 23 looking for a flag. Resnick said he grabbed one from a bunting box and asked permission from commanding officer Lt. Felix Molenda to donate it. Resnick kept quiet about his participation until 2001."[14] The flag itself was sewn by Mabel Sauvageau, a worker at the "flag loft" of the Mare Island Naval Shipyard.[15]

The Marines reached the top of the mountain around noon, where Gagnon joined them. Despite the large numbers of Japanese troops in the immediate vicinity, the 40-man patrol made it to the top of the mountain without being fired on once, as the Japanese were under bombardment at the time.[16]

Rosenthal, along with Marine photographers Bob Campbell and Bill Genaust (who was killed in action nine days after the flag raising)[17] was climbing Suribachi at this time. On the way up, the trio met Lowery (the man who photographed the first flag raising). They had been considering turning around, but Lowery told them that the summit was an excellent vantage point from which to take pictures.[12]

Rosenthal's trio reached the summit as the Marines were attaching the flag to an old Japanese water pipe. Rosenthal put down his Speed Graphic camera (which was set to 1/400th of a second shutter speed, with the f-stop between 8 and 16) on the ground so he could pile rocks to stand on for a better vantage point. In doing so, he nearly missed the shot. Along with Navy Pharmacist's Mate Second Class John H. Bradley, the five Marines began raising the U. S. flag. Realizing he was about to miss it, Rosenthal quickly swung his camera up and snapped the photograph without using the viewfinder.[18] Ten years after the flag-raising, Rosenthal wrote:

Out of the corner of my eye, I had seen the men start the flag up. I swung my camera and shot the scene. That is how the picture was taken, and when you take a picture like that, you don't come away saying you got a great shot. You don't know.

Bill Genaust, who was standing almost shoulder-to-shoulder with Rosenthal about thirty yards from the flag raising, was shooting motion-picture film during the flag-raising. His film captures the flag raising at an almost-identical angle to Rosenthal's famous shot.

Of the six men pictured — Michael Strank, Rene Gagnon, Ira Hayes, Franklin Sousley, John Bradley, and Harlon Block — only three (Hayes, Gagnon, and Bradley) survived the battle. Strank was killed six days after the flag raising when a shell, likely fired from an offshore American destroyer, tore his heart out; Block was killed by a mortar a few hours after Strank; Sousley — the last of the flag-raisers to succumb in the battle — was shot and killed by a sniper on March 21, a few days before the island was declared secure.[19]

*******
I have "Flag of our Fathers" at home. I will check to see if the account in that book, written by Bradley's son, squares with these Wiki sources. Sounds about right though.

Interestingly, Henry Hansen, who raised the first flag was mistakenly indentified as being the Marine whose back is visible in the second raising. That marine was later correctly identified as being Harlon Block. Bradley writes in Flags, that Block's mother back home in Texas identified her son from the butt shot in Rosenthal's picture, even though the Marines had mistakenly indetified him as Hansen. Both of them, as previously mentioned, were killed on Iwo.

[MTUpower]

I lived on Saipan for more than 5 years, On Palau where Peleliu is for two years and Guam and Midway atoll for a year each. Iwo Jima is the north of Saipan on the same geological submarine ridge. The battle/invasion beaches were/are still littered with battle items on all those places. During some of my caving I found human remains/bones and historic items. Diving of course were countless items to be left undisturbed. My hat is eternally off to those on both sides that fought like pawns on a giant chess board. It's something no story or TV show can impress on you like the real sites and people who were there at the time telling you what happened to them.