hybrids and Diesels - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

Aquaticedge · #1 03-18-2010, 01:53 AM

This may have been Discussed before.. but diesels get great mileage.. but can it be improved? would there be a point of making a Diesel hybrid or is the whole Idea moot? I've had that idea for the past few days now and I just cant decided if it's smart or not... VW could do it with their jetta's 4Cyl..

Ara T. · #2 03-18-2010, 02:51 AM

It can be improved (as time goes on, smaller engines develop more hp/tq and more light weight materials are used in cars) but nothing is going to be as efficient in stop and go commuting as a hybrid. I dont know why no one does a diesel hybrid.. must be too cost prohibitive.

t walgamuth · #3 03-18-2010, 06:07 AM

I read mb is working on one.

KarTek · #4 03-18-2010, 08:32 AM

We have a bunch of Diesel/Hybrid city buses around here...

raymr · #5 03-18-2010, 08:55 AM

A few years ago they had some experimental diesel hybrids on display in DC. They were small European cars (Ford?). So somebody has been giving it some thought. But don't diesels take a long time to warm up? If so then it might be a problem for emissions / efficiency.

compress ignite · #6 03-18-2010, 11:10 AM

TOO fuel efficient
MBUSA will never import to U.S.

MB makes an E200 that's a NGV (Natural Gas Vehicle)
Almost No Pollution
Equivalent NG prices $.60 per gallon
With electric compressor in carport,refuel @ home overnight.
Scheißer in Montvale will never import it to U.S.

tbomachines · #7 03-18-2010, 12:18 PM

Diesel hybrids are usually discussed in two different ways. The first is a diesel electric type of car, where you'd essentially have a giant generator powering electric motors (anyone watch Top Gear - Eagle-i Hammerhead thrust or whatever). The other is a version of the hybrids we have today only with a diesel engine. I doubt a diesel starting and stopping is able to be as smooth as a gasoline engine...certainly not seamless. I imagine that would be a major consumer obstacle for a diesel "hybrid" as we know it.

Angel · #8 03-18-2010, 12:24 PM

From what I remember, its money and public acceptance (whats been said here)

I'm not sure how well hybrids sell in Europe, where diesel is an acceptable option, but I seem to remember a Honda or Toyota representative saying "We aren't going to try to do a diesel-electric hybrid because it would cost to much to build and diesels aren't widely accepted in the US."

I think we agree that diesel engines (still) cost more to manufacture, and when the hybrid option still adds more to the price...I can see why manuf's don't want to go there.....yet.

Spoken from the viewpoint that I will probably never spend more than $20k on a car...ever.

-John

aklim · #9 03-18-2010, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

TOO fuel efficient
MBUSA will never import to U.S.

MB makes an E200 that's a NGV (Natural Gas Vehicle)
Almost No Pollution
Equivalent NG prices $.60 per gallon
With electric compressor in carport,refuel @ home overnight.
Scheißer in Montvale will never import it to U.S.

They are having trouble selling diesel already. In times like this, why would they stick extra money out on a hunch? I wouldn't. If the economy was booming, sure.

And if you are not home before it runs out? I don't like my diesel for that reason. Any fuel station sells gas. Not every one sells diesel unless it is near the highway. Fuel prices for diesel can vary from one station to the next one a quarter mile down the road by 10 cents. Take NGV and you have a totally different ball game. They are great for taxis where the driver can fuel up by going back to the garage. What happens if I am on the road and need more fuel?

Ara T. · #10 03-18-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compress ignite

TOO fuel efficient
MBUSA will never import to U.S.

MB makes an E200 that's a NGV (Natural Gas Vehicle)
Almost No Pollution
Equivalent NG prices $.60 per gallon
With electric compressor in carport,refuel @ home overnight.
Scheißer in Montvale will never import it to U.S.

Honda leases NG Civics, at least in CA.

retmil46 · #11 03-18-2010, 07:33 PM

One word - emissions. CARB and the EPA literally think diesels are the devil's spawn. Many in both organizations would like nothing better than to see diesels disappear entirely from this country. Think the 2010 requirements are the last word? Think again - thay're already talking about ratcheting up the requirements in 2012 and beyond. Many OEM's have flat-out given up any idea of introducing diesels here in the U.S. because of the constantly changing specs. Caterpillar quit making OTR engines 2 years ago because it wasn't worth the cost of chasing an always-moving target. Daimler and Detroit Diesel spent 1.5 BILLION to develop the DD15 engine to meet 2010 specs and get decent fuel economy, and now the EPA is changing the rules of the game again in a couple of years.

4x4_Welder · #12 03-18-2010, 07:36 PM

Once I hit the lottery, I'm going to build my dream truck- Start with a 68 F100, build it out into essentially a 4door Bronco, with a 50kw Kubota 4cyl turbodiesel mounted sideways under the hood. A 4-6phase alternator would be mounted parallel behind it and connected with a belt. Large battery pack in the rear, and twin 9" motors on a single shaft driving the rear axle through a two or three speed gearbox.
If my numbers are halfway to being right, at 60mph I would get right about 30mpg, assuming the engine was maxed out at that point.
That's the ultimate in hybrid.

Skid Row Joe · #13 03-18-2010, 07:38 PM

Mercedes-Benz now has for sale a new S400 hybrid - it's not diesel, but I recall a dealer -Pete Mankins MB in Texarkana, Texas advertising new ones for around $115K on his website. They were not in stock - and this was about 4 weeks ago when I checked.

rscurtis · #14 03-18-2010, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

One word - emissions. CARB and the EPA literally think diesels are the devil's spawn. Many in both organizations would like nothing better than to see diesels disappear entirely from this country. Think the 2010 requirements are the last word? Think again - thay're already talking about ratcheting up the requirements in 2012 and beyond. Many OEM's have flat-out given up any idea of introducing diesels here in the U.S. because of the constantly changing specs. Caterpillar quit making OTR engines 2 years ago because it wasn't worth the cost of chasing an always-moving target. Daimler and Detroit Diesel spent 1.5 BILLION to develop the DD15 engine to meet 2010 specs and get decent fuel economy, and now the EPA is changing the rules of the game again in a couple of years.

AFAIK, there are no new emission standards on the horizon. They are at virtually zero now. Further reductions of CO2 will focus on fuel economy, not exhaust emissions.

compress ignite · #15 03-18-2010, 08:46 PM

http://www.altfuels.org/cleannbk.html