Come to Michigan ! Go to school in your PJs!

[strelnik]

The Democrats in Michigan have a sweet deal for the teachers as proposed. I TRULY hope it doesn't go through at all, much less, as proposed.

All teachers with 25 years' service will be allowed to retire before 01 Sep 2010. They will get their regular pension benefits, no matter what age, a $ 50,000 sweetener incentive and TOTALLY FREE 100% medical care for them and their spouse.

This will be done to reduce the costs of teachers' salaries. Giving away this much money doesn't, in my opinion, reduce the cost of anything. They will be making basically 19.35/hour to do nothing until they die.

In the meantime, the school systems will hire temporary teachers or the others who do not have 25 years will continue to work, and they will teach 2 days a week. The rest of the time, student classes will be converted to computer-based "labs" where students complete assignments and send them to a site like turnitin.com. The labs will have monitors, presumably to keep order, since these positions do not require subject matter expertise.

Can you see running a high school like this? It makes no sense. What about athletics and band, if still available?

This is the most wasteful, absurd, lunatic idea, among many, that I have seen in Michigan.

Fortunately, there are some state legislators who are raising hell about it.

The teachers' union, in the meanwhile, is canvassing its constituents to find out if this is a liveable pension and if the "sweetener" is enough.

When I heard this on the radio, I checked-- nope, it's not April 1!

Yes, folks, in Michigan, education is the "silver bullet"-- to the brain.

[E150GT]

it seems as technology gets better and better, the old ways of doing things are going way of the buffalo. Who knows, maybe in 20 years we will just download info into our brains and skip school all together...

[davidmash]

Not sure how the PC labs will be run as no additional info was provided but I recall seeing a segment on computer based learning and as presented it seemed quite efficient. Students could access the class from any PC. The teacher would present the curriculum on line via recorded presentation or live. Students would be able to interact on line similar to a chat room. Work assignments were emailed out and then returned the same way. They found that interaction among the students went up and that learning actually increased as well.

Lets face it, we are becoming a more networked society. The biggest advantage I see to a old fashioned school environment is the social interaction. As for the education, it seems there are far more efficient ways of accomplishing this. Look at this forum if you want a good example of that. We have people here from all walks of life. Twenty years ago this would have never happened. We have full discussions on this board and I would argue that a good deal of education goes on here. Multiple opinions can be presented, supporting evidence can be presented and if someone sends up a stink balloon, we all have the research capabilities to verify and present a counter argument.

What is wrong with the idea of taking this format and transferring it to a school environment?

Seems like Michigan might be on to something.

[dynalow]

Originally Posted by strelnik

The Democrats in Michigan have a sweet deal for the teachers as proposed. I TRULY hope it doesn't go through at all, much less, as proposed.

All teachers with 25 years' service will be allowed to retire before 01 Sep 2010. They will get their regular pension benefits, no matter what age, a $ 50,000 sweetener incentive and TOTALLY FREE 100% medical care for them and their spouse.

This will be done to reduce the costs of teachers' salaries. Giving away this much money doesn't, in my opinion, reduce the cost of anything. They will be making basically 19.35/hour to do nothing until they die.

In the meantime, the school systems will hire temporary teachers or the others who do not have 25 years will continue to work, and they will teach 2 days a week. The rest of the time, student classes will be converted to computer-based "labs" where students complete assignments and send them to a site like turnitin.com. The labs will have monitors, presumably to keep order, since these positions do not require subject matter expertise.

Can you see running a high school like this? It makes no sense. What about athletics and band, if still available?

This is the most wasteful, absurd, lunatic idea, among many, that I have seen in Michigan.

Fortunately, there are some state legislators who are raising hell about it.

The teachers' union, in the meanwhile, is canvassing its constituents to find out if this is a liveable pension and if the "sweetener" is enough.

When I heard this on the radio, I checked-- nope, it's not April 1!

Yes, folks, in Michigan, education is the "silver bullet"-- to the brain.

Rats wanting to jump the sinking ship. Cast off the lines I say and let them go down with the ship they have sailed into the rocky shoals of educational failure.

$50,000 as a "sweetner" bonus for being part of the crappiest public ed. system in the nation? You gotta be joking. Fawk 'em all I say.

[Txjake]

man.....more bad-stupid ideas from people who should not be in charge

[strelnik]

Originally Posted by davidmash

What is wrong with the idea of taking this format and transferring it to a school environment?

Seems like Michigan might be on to something.

I have used CBT, in fact, I use it currently in my job and it's great FOR SOME THINGS. But it has limited application.

The intent so far is to use it across the board. To save money. This is not feasible.

How will you do chem bio or physics experiments safely?

How about welding? auto shop? band?

How about human contact with a teacher when you are doing practical exercises or gym or sports and need feedback?

If you severely restrict or eliminate the human element from teaching, you might as well close the school and let people get their HS diploma by tuning in to Wikipedia.

Plus, there is another issue, lest I be labeled an elitist.

Having a group of students debate among themselves passes information, but not necessarily learning.

I know they did it in the movie " Stripes" but can you see soldiers learning the skills they need by reading the book and teaching each other? Then going to Afghanistan?

How about car painters?
Interpreters?
Public speakers etc.
Teachers?

This was the problem with the UAW's Product Quality Improvement program. It was entire inborn. No ideas came from the outside and no real expert ever helped the group, because, in the union mentality, "we are all equal." So their progress was equal but limited, finally non existant. So quality died. or became a showcase item.

Well, you may have the same seniority date, but that doesn't make you all equal.

Ditto with education. Sometimes, there's not enough experience within the group to pass learning on.

Talk to a veteran of one or more wars and you will appreciate where I'm going with this.

[davidmash]

Of course there are limitations. Lab work would need to be done in person. As for Band, shop classes and the rest, while nice they are not "required" for a education. Those can be done extra curricular and if push comes to shove for budget reason, I would much rather those be cut than have the core education material affected as well.

Who said anything about letting the students educate them selves? You can have a prerecorded presentation with unlimited numbers of students accessing the material. A Q&A can be handled via a TA or submit the questions on line. If the teacher gives a presentation live (as a friend of mine had in his on line classes for a teaching degree) the interaction on line is identical to that in a class with the exception that my friend was doing it in his PJ's.

School size could be reduced substantially if a bulk of the education were to occur on line. No need to have a teacher come to school to a class of 30 and teach math. That can be done on line far more efficiently. Same for English, lit, hist, soc and countless other classes that do not require hands on environment.

Come to think of it, if you reduce the school size to the size needed for hands on classes, you would probably save up enough money to pay for those classes.

edit:
My wife is going to take her RN bridge course on line. The entire curriculum is on line with the exception of the practicals. Those will be done in person over two weekends. It's a certified and accredited course.

[pawoSD]

It will never happen, its not even worth talking about IMHO. Though if it did....the IT field is a good place to be working! Which I am!

[davidmash]

Never say never. There are schools that require that al students have a PC. More and more curriculum is on line verses in class.