Msft the evil empire or Apple ?? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kknudson · #1 04-27-2010, 11:04 PM

Don't flame this, but constantly people trash MSFT as the evil empire.
Here are 2 fairly well written things about Apple and the way they conduct business.

http://www.windowsitpro.com/article/commentary/I-Love-My-iPhone-but-I-Wonder-About-Apple.aspx

and then a bit technical, but here’s a blog about the iStore app license

http://ct.techrepublic.com.com/clicks?t=538362380-19f24306ec8a173d4a59c36e54f93d3d-bf&brand=TECHREPUBLIC&s=5

I'm not defending Msft, although I do a lot of work on their products.

It's just the bashing they take, and somehow this type of thing flies over the heads of the Apple fanatics.

Then too if it really ever got out, the cost to add 3g (wiMax) into the iPad is somewhere around 7 bucks for the best chipset on the market, they could do it for under 3 bucks.
The 3G version will only be 300 bucks more ???

pawoSD · #2 04-27-2010, 11:45 PM

For all the Microsoft Bashing people do, they are WAAY more lenient in how they license and manage their products than Apple is. Apple strives in every way to monopolize and control every aspect of their products. They even put a licensing chip in the headphones for their ipod shuffle so that only Apple brand products will work/control it! Talk about obsessed.

The problem is that too many people like shiny "cool looking" products, and thus flock to apple. They have way too much money appearantly too, as they will spend 2x what a device is worth just to have a piece of half eaten fruit on it.

kmaysob · #3 04-28-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

For all the Microsoft Bashing people do, they are WAAY more lenient in how they license and manage their products than Apple is. Apple strives in every way to monopolize and control every aspect of their products. They even put a licensing chip in the headphones for their ipod shuffle so that only Apple brand products will work/control it! Talk about obsessed.

The problem is that too many people like shiny "cool looking" products, and thus flock to apple. They have way too much money appearantly too, as they will spend 2x what a device is worth just to have a piece of half eaten fruit on it.

dude, the headphones for the shuffle, were created for the shuffle. hence it doesnt have a screen or control pad. standard ipod head phones will work with anything else

pawoSD · #4 04-28-2010, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kmaysob

dude, the headphones for the shuffle, were created for the shuffle. hence it doesnt have a screen or control pad. standard ipod head phones will work with anything else

I get that there are headphones made for it, but Apple integrated a DRM chip into their headphones that locks only theirs to the device, so aftermarket producers must either pay licensing fees or not make them at all. Pretty shady.

kmaysob · #5 04-28-2010, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawoSD

I get that there are headphones made for it, but Apple integrated a DRM chip into their headphones that locks only theirs to the device, so aftermarket producers must either pay licensing fees or not make them at all. Pretty shady.

why is that shady? how would you feel if you came out with an ingenious product tomorrow and suddenly everyone made a knock off of you product, sold it for half of what you did and took a huge chunk of your sales away?

MTI · #6 04-28-2010, 02:24 AM

Don't waste your breath, pawoSD is a dyed in the wool Winders fanatic. Just check any post about Apple products in this forum.

Apple is, and always has been, tight fisted about its hardware and software. It's their way or the highway, and that's the way they like it, both for themselves and their consumers. Yes, the consumers do benefit by not having misbehaving software or hardware bringing the computer to its knees with badly written or integrated drivers and interrupts. Yes, they do pay for it, too. Nothing is free.

Microsoft, on the other hand, stopped innovating when their primary growth model was to merely buy up other companies that had done the hard work of developing the code.

#7 04-28-2010, 06:19 AM

Actually, I agree with all the comments about the "closed" apple devices and the price. As a customer, not a developer, my response is "who cares?". Apple provides products that do exactly what I need them to do at a price I'm willing to pay with very little hassle. I will probably buy the biggest 3g ipad on the first day it's available because it does a few things I need and it's a cool toy; I don't care what it costs to build them, I only care about what I'm willing to pay.

kknudson · #8 04-28-2010, 06:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTI

Don't waste your breath, pawoSD is a dyed in the wool Winders fanatic. Just check any post about Apple products in this forum.

Apple is, and always has been, tight fisted about its hardware and software. It's their way or the highway, and that's the way they like it, both for themselves and their consumers. Yes, the consumers do benefit by not having misbehaving software or hardware bringing the computer to its knees with badly written or integrated drivers and interrupts. Yes, they do pay for it, too. Nothing is free.

Microsoft, on the other hand, stopped innovating when their primary growth model was to merely buy up other companies that had done the hard work of developing the code.

That's not quite the point of this thread.

Why is it when Msft does it, it is called the evil empire, when Apple does it they are protecting their product.

What if you could only buy parts for your MB from MB. Heck you even had to put gas in it at your local dealer ? Ok you can only by one brand of gas and had to pay a premium for it, even though it's junk gas.
Oil changes are dealer only, infact open the hood and it quits working until you bring it to the dealer, oh the warranty is void now.

I also disagree that APPL can be called an innovator, at least for many years.

ipod = walkman (I also had this on my Win Mobile phone years before ipods, 2002).
iPhone - I had all of the functionality YEARS before the iphone (2002, ok I had to hard wire sync originally), But it didn't have the Flashy interface.
ipad - there have been several attempts, actually look at those big fancy screens you see on the news etc where they draw on them with their fingers. Most are Winders, albeit very expensive.
Mac OS = BSD Unix (with lipstick)

Apple improved these products, VERY NICELY IMPROVED, mostly with a FLASHY INTERFACE !!!
But I can't call these innovations.

I agree Msft is more concerned with attacking anyone that "they" feel threatens their turf than with improving their product so no one could or would.

Apples do crash, do have problems, can get virus and are hackable.
Funny my Winders workstations are as problem free as the Macs I support and a heck of a lot easier to fix when they do have issue's.

But then I'm an 'Innovator' in that I configure the workstations my way or the highway.

Consider the law of large numbers, look at Toyotas problems.

It's just the way the 2 companies are compared, yet in their own ways neither is better than the other. Just different.

SwampYankee · #9 04-28-2010, 08:23 AM

MTI · #10 04-28-2010, 01:30 PM

Here's a key difference. In every version of the Apple OS, I could easily remove the e-mail client or web browser and use a non-Apple replacement.

Remember how traumatic it used to be to ditch IE & Outlook?

Don't forget the Bill Gates quote during the development of Windows 3.0:

"It's not finished until it crashes Lotus 1-2-3."

Stoney · #11 04-28-2010, 04:56 PM

Ever try and refill an Epson Ink Cartridge and reuse it? Better buy a tool to reset the chip that talks to the program to verify there is enough ink inside or it won't work at all or really poorly.

We have a Xerox plotter that will not accept anything but Xerox ink refills...finally found there is a chip in their ink tanks as well.

Dell printers, same thing.

No law against it.

Now try and work on your "new" GM car without a new set of "GM only" tools...same with Volvo, BMW and others (fancy $150 tool for resetting the CE light, etc, etc).

aklim · #12 04-28-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kknudson

That's not quite the point of this thread.

Why is it when Msft does it, it is called the evil empire, when Apple does it they are protecting their product.

What if you could only buy parts for your MB from MB. Heck you even had to put gas in it at your local dealer ? Ok you can only by one brand of gas and had to pay a premium for it, even though it's junk gas.
Oil changes are dealer only, infact open the hood and it quits working until you bring it to the dealer, oh the warranty is void now.

I also disagree that APPL can be called an innovator, at least for many years.

ipod = walkman (I also had this on my Win Mobile phone years before ipods, 2002).
iPhone - I had all of the functionality YEARS before the iphone (2002, ok I had to hard wire sync originally), But it didn't have the Flashy interface.
ipad - there have been several attempts, actually look at those big fancy screens you see on the news etc where they draw on them with their fingers. Most are Winders, albeit very expensive.
Mac OS = BSD Unix (with lipstick)

Apple improved these products, VERY NICELY IMPROVED, mostly with a FLASHY INTERFACE !!!
But I can't call these innovations.

I agree Msft is more concerned with attacking anyone that "they" feel threatens their turf than with improving their product so no one could or would.

Apples do crash, do have problems, can get virus and are hackable.
Funny my Winders workstations are as problem free as the Macs I support and a heck of a lot easier to fix when they do have issue's.

But then I'm an 'Innovator' in that I configure the workstations my way or the highway.

Consider the law of large numbers, look at Toyotas problems.

It's just the way the 2 companies are compared, yet in their own ways neither is better than the other. Just different.

Very simple answer is "People tend to to give the underdog a pass and vilify anyone big.".

#13 04-28-2010, 06:03 PM

There's nothing evil about MS, they just don't make very interesting products. They are like GM, lots of mediocre products to fill every market with something that's "good enough" for the average consumer.

Zeus · #14 04-28-2010, 06:08 PM

They both have their tactics. While Microsoft is more often than not the one in the headlines, Apple has many very annoying practices as well and rarely seems to get bad press about it.

So IMHO, they are both 'evil empires' in terms of being ruthless about competition - but that's the game, isn't it?

Take the new video standard - DisplayPort. This will eventually replace DVI, which has essentially replaced VGA as the optimum/newest connection between a computer and its monitor. All PC hardware supports it. All monitor manufacturers support it. This includes very high end monitors designed for medical and photography use such as NEC, LaCie, Eizo, etc.

Apple also supports DisplayPort. Only they made their own version, Mini DisplayPort. So you can't hook a newer Mac up to a high end monitor if you don't like the standard Mac display. Granted Mac displays are very nice (IPS panels on the Cinemas), however they are all glossy and that is not useful in many lighting situations, like strong fluorescents or sunlight. What if you need to hook your MacBook up to a larger screen at a business meeting? Same deal.

Apple also removed DVI from newer Macs, so you are stuck with Mini DisplayPort and hence will have to purchase an adapter of some kind if available to connect to other monitors, or a second/third monitor if you have multi-monitor setups.

It is increasingly common for users to have two or three widescreen monitors. High end PC video cards support this, ATi has EyeFinity, etc. They can run three full widescreen monitors at a time for gaming, editing, and other advanced applications.

There have already been headaches and Apple is 'quietly' trying to address them -

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/03/17/apple_issues_mini_displayport_to_vga_adapter_firmware_update.html

http://www.9to5mac.com/DisplayPort-Dual-Link-DVI-Adapter

Apple's take - http://support.apple.com/kb/ht3382

It's just one example, Apple uses this connection/hardware stunt fairly often in order to force users to upgrade their gear.

So while a Mac is undoubtedly a nice machine, one pays in spades for that premium. Far more than it would cost to have a PC of equal capability with equally good hardware.

As I've stated in the past, I've used both Macs and PCs at work and at home and both have their uses. Since I build my own PCs and update them often, and prefer my own monitors (matte IPS screens), I go with PCs.

I'm just glad work paid for the Mac.

#15 04-28-2010, 06:19 PM

Here's the adoptor for $30:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/MB570Z/A?fnode=MTY1NDA3Ng&mco=MTA4NDU0ODY

If you care about being backward comparable, you don't want to buy a mac; they don't want to play in that market.