Do you think America's Supremacy is over? Is financial burden going to destroy this country? Some argue that America'a might began to decline in the mid 70s and has been declining since. How true is that? Where will we be in 10-20-30 years? Slave to the Chinese? Has years of bad decision making exhausted all resources to the point of no return? Lastly do you think WWIII is imminent?

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72 280SE His Majesty

Slave to the Chinese?? There are a lot of things (for me) in US that can be done much better, but one thing that was than exceptionally well (for me) was this move with selling the $800 billions US debt to the Chinese.
You know what they say:
If you own $100 K to the bank, the bank owns you
If you own $100 millions to the bank, you own the bank

Some people think that the China holding US for the money...but what would happen if the US default on repayments???

I am sure you see my point. The China will collapse faster than they can say HELP

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http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v...7/scotflag.gif http://i680.photobucket.com/albums/v.../scot2flag.gif

"If women are so bloody perfect at multitasking how come they can't have a headache and sex at the same time?"
Billy Connolly

Do you think America's Supremacy is over?

Nope; with the financial failure of socialism well under way, I'd say we're getting stronger.

Is financial burden going to destroy this country?

I think we'll solve this problem over the next 10-20 years; not with our current administration, however, and certainly not with any more politicians who spend, spend, spend.

Some argue that America'a might began to decline in the mid 70s and has been declining since. How true is that?

Not very. Not even sure how you could find any evidence to support this theory.

Where will we be in 10-20-30 years? Slave to the Chinese? Has years of bad decision making exhausted all resources to the point of no return?

Chinese economy and debt is more instable than ours. No slavery. Go to elections wisely.

Lastly do you think WWIII is imminent?

Of course; at some point, there'll be another world war. Why wouldn't there be?

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- Brian


1989 500SEL Euro
1966 250SE Cabriolet
1958 BMW Isetta 600

1. How has socialist China failed financially?

2. Check the previous administrations record on the deficit. This was during mostly good years for the economy when it should have been easier to pay down the deficit but they choose to cut taxes for the rich instead.

It was a mistake to think America was ever supreme.

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You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Spend within your means, even if you have to borrow to do so!! a sure path to failure. At some stage in the future the debt has to be paid out. China has only 1 thing going for it ~ its population. While they have such a low standard of living they will boom. Eventually the leadership in the USA will make the painful decision to bring debt under control.

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Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving

IMO, the country's best days were in the mid 1960's. The decline started with the 1973 oil embargo. Cars of that era were also the worst junk ever made- that's why a lot of Diesel MB's were sold!. Carter, while he had the foresight of imposing a gas tax to reduce consumption and realized the importance of having an energy policy, single handedly ruined the commercial aviation industry with deregulation. RR was a true leader despite how some may feel about his fiscal policies. The Clinton years showed promise, but he scuttled any of his successes with the passage of NAFTA and the repeal of Glass Steagal. The hill really got steep on Jan 20, 2001, and shows no signs of leveling off. In several more generations, much of this country will resemble Haiti- all wealth concentrated, and the rest left to fend for themselves amidst a crumbling infrastructure. Don't believe me? Sit in traffic on the Cross Bronx Expwy. and look at the debris nets under the overpasses and the rebar sticking out of the support columns. The beauty of the traffic is that the rough road surface can't beat your car to death like it does at 50 MPH. You don't have to wait 20-30 years to do this, you can do it today.

The average age of the world's great civilizations has been two hundred years. These nations have progressed through the following sequence: from bondage to spiritual faith, from spiritual faith to great courage, from courage to liberty, from liberty to abundance, from abundance to selfishness, from selfishness to complacency from complacency to apathy, from apathy to dependency, from dependency back to bondage.

-- Alexander Fraser Tytler, The Decline and Fall of the Athenian Republic*


Some things don't change. It's neither good nor bad, it's just the life cycle of nations; at some point they are all replaced by something else. IMHO, the american nation peaked in the mid 20th century but will be around for some time to come.

Love the quote.

Great response. My view is slightly less optimistic. I think globalization has affected the duration of that lifecycle. And I was just reading in the news that a study was conducted on America's apathetic youth.

But I am not saying its over, just that the signs are stronger. Personally, I think you, and POS have a much more experienced viewpoint.

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The fact that you are allowed to publicly ask these types of questions without fear should pretty much tell you everything you need to know.

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MB-less

America is a de-facto empire, (and always has been) without the internal will to recognize that fact, nor the maturity to act thereupon. It has imperial commitments world wide with a military that is numerically woefully inadequate for the task.

Socialism has failed (actually it was a non starter) but that doesn't mean that America specifically will prosper as China is now a capitalist country as well, without the burden of democracy to derail sound economic planning. Just because a country is capitalist does not automatically guarantee success, there are other factors besides the economic system itself that matter. So it's certainly possible that China will surpass the US economically in the next fifty years or so. Possible but not certain.

In St. Galen Switzerland recently Niall Ferguson touched on this subject in a lecture he gave on the subject of entreprenureship. He pointed out the graph of Chinese economic growth which showed an exponential increase right off the chart in a few decades that no other country could hope to match. But then he pointed out that that was looking at the situation purely from an economic perspective. When you bring the historical reality into it you see such situations before. But they never progress as such a smooth curve.There is always a reset. Exactly what that would be is not known, but something always happens.

So WWIII could certainly be a possibility. I see nothing fundamentally that's changed in human nature over the course of history to make that unlikely.

My own observations on the US's decline (if that's what it is) first as a foreigner outside the window looking in, then as a resident and citizen is that the US peaked as a result of it's success in WWII. That it was poised to expand to greater hights than any other civilization in history, but that things then got ****ed up with the "cultural revolution" of the 60's and 70's, the results of which have been a turning away from "manifest destiny" which fundamentally meant America is better than anybody else and should increase it's influence over human civilization for the good of humanity.

Replacing it has been the kind of myopic apologism suggesting that we are just one of a whole bunch of different societies and that we can learn from others and don't really have the right to push our agenda on others and we can simply bury our heads in the sands of ignorance and isolationsim and hope the world will just go on it's merry way.

In my life time the US has lost it's lead in just about every major high tech endeavor that will be the foundation for the future of human civilization, if that civilization is to be worth attaining.

Other than some high tech weaponry where the US still retains it's lead it has given up it's leads in commercial aerospace, nuclear power,physics, alternative energy, manufacturing, and it is starting to look like it may be giving up its lead in commercial computing.

None of these failures were as a result of being beaten by it's enemies/competitors. They were all home grown resulting from the conscious decisions of the American populace to fail in these endeavors.

Frankly the picture looks bleak, though the future is unknowable and may well be more of a surprise to everybody when it does come than anyone could have thought.

America has traditionally been able to call on an inherent dynamism that has enabled it to adapt to circumstance and succeed come what may. It remains to be seen wether or not that dynamism still exists or if it's been swamped by a cultural change over the last few decades.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

The brief 'reign of sorts' by the liberals, trying to place government above individual rights and liberty, change is about to occur. The vast and wide Tea Party movement of Independents, former Dems, and Reps have already proven at the polls in 2010, that America has no interest in the gravy train of red ink practiced by the current regime. That's abundantly clear by the election outcomes thus far. Never bet against America, as conservatism and individual liberty, is what America is all about. The house cleaning will begin in earnest starting in November... The best is yet to come for America after the house cleaning of November '10 and November 2012.

The key word is change. The ability to change and respond to outside influences creates new opportunities and gives us the ability to jettison what doesn't work anymore.

China has changed. Their people are also still living at poverty levels,and they are polluting their environment while becoming the manufacturing base of the world. They are also a net importer of energy, so they are acutely dependent on others to keep their industrial machine going. Building factories is not rocket science. We can get all of that business back if we were motivated enough to do so.

America has lost its ability to change. I think we are now victims of 'paralysis by analysis'. Security fears and political correctness have sidelined the dynamic America that once was. However we will not be enslaved by anyone. Those hapless laid back Euro zone countries are finding out that money and global financial markets are their true masters, as they are ours. In some ways, war has moved from the battlefield to Wall Street.

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1985 380SE Blue/Blue - 230,000 miles
2012 Subaru Forester 5-speed
2005 Toyota Sienna
2004 Chrysler Sebring convertible
1999 Toyota Tacoma

America has one advantage over the world that few other countries have and that is the ability for Americans to move upon our innovations quickly.

There is no built in culture of corruption here like in many other countries, and when you do encounter it there are ways around it.

New modes of business will emerge, as they always have, and the old business models will try and throw roadblocks in their way like they always have. A case in point is the deregulation of the airlines. Why is everyone in that biz, but for Southwest, losing money? Because they were incapable of change.

Southwest started with a niche market: Dallas to Houston to San Antonio and back to Dallas. They started with three aircraft which they kept airborne all day and were serviced all night. Their business model duplicated the freight routes of the Phonicians (sailing around the Med Sea in one directions, picking up freight at one port and delivering it to one down the way) and this business lasted for hundreds of years. Southwest just did the one thing that has always worked in business: They responded to a need. It has only taken 30 years for the other airlines to understand this.

Southwest, by the way, is heavly unionized. They claim that is one reason for their success. Other airlines claim it is the reason for their failure, but who else are the managers of the other airlines going to blame? Themselves?

The whiners that carry on about how the Republicans will restore us to greatness are just totally blinded by their political views. As Will Rogers said, "American has the greatest political system in history. The worst politicans can't hurt it and the best can't help it."

A case in point: A friend of mine is involved in a deal that involves a business in Europe. Since Obama took office the Dollar has shown such strength against European currencies that the cost of his project has dropped by about $16,500,000, and before it is through he will likely find it costing about $5,000,000 less than it does now. The whole 'Hopey, changy thing', as Palin describes it, is working out very well for him.

By the way, my friend is not dealing with a country that uses the Euro, so the debt problem of one country is not what is working for him. The Dollar is just getting stronger in many world markets because the markets see American getting stronger.

I do see politics playing a part in America remaining strong. The Republicans are working so hard at making Obama fail they cannot put any energy into making America great. The fact that the markets are ignorining them must cause them some distress, but as they have ceased to be a factor in America's greatness are they really relavant to this discussion?

Countries like China are only one crisis away from destruction. The Russian Oil Minister once said it was not Reagan that destroyed the USSR, it was oil hitting $8.50 a bbl.

The low price of oil was a blip to the economy to the US. To the USSR it was the end of an Empire.

As long as there are still people like Mike Dell, who started Dell in his dorm room at UT building machines for his fellow engineering students, running around American will remain the strongest country in the world.

President Palin will solve all these problems.

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"The law, in its majestic equality, forbids the rich as well as the poor to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal bread."