$5 to cash a check? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

cscmc1 · #1 06-17-2010, 11:40 AM

I realize now, after some searching, that this is old news, but it irks me nonetheless.

We recently sold some furniture, and accepted a check from the buyer as a convenience. I know, I should stop right there... no one but myself to blame for accepting a check. Anyway, in order to guarantee that the check was good, I asked my wife to cash it at the nearest branch of the bank it was drawn on. She did so at 8am today, and was told she'd have to wait 'til 9am for the lobby to open, since she is not a customer at said bank. 9:00 rolls around, and she waits for a teller... the teller says the computers are down and they can't help her. No idea when they'll be working again. She proceeds to the NEXT nearest branch, who confirm that they can help her after they have her place her fingerprint on the back of the check and collect a $5 "convenience fee."

When did this $5 fee become the norm? My credit union does not charge such a fee, and I'd tell them to take a hike if they ever did that to someone to whom I'd written a check. I understand that I am not a customer at the bank in question, but the writer of the check IS their customer. They are collecting fees from that person, and interest in the cash in their account(s). How do they justify charging me for doing their jobs? Do they $5 to release the funds to my bank if I deposit the check into my account?

I guess it's been a while since I cashed a check at a bank other than my own. I have never run into this "convenience fee" before. It just seems to defy all logic. It's only $5, but the principle of the matter irks me to no end. Sorry to rant!

Hatterasguy · #2 06-17-2010, 11:41 AM

Never heard of that before, I would have refused the fee.

What bank was this? Sounds like your typical POS national bank.

cscmc1 · #3 06-17-2010, 11:44 AM

It was US Bank. I googled this $5 fee and it appears to be very common these days; my local credit union doesn't pull this crap, however. Live & learn, I guess.

aklim · #4 06-17-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

I realize now, after some searching, that this is old news, but it irks me nonetheless.

We recently sold some furniture, and accepted a check from the buyer as a convenience. I know, I should stop right there... no one but myself to blame for accepting a check. Anyway, in order to guarantee that the check was good, I asked my wife to cash it at the nearest branch of the bank it was drawn on. She did so at 8am today, and was told she'd have to wait 'til 9am for the lobby to open, since she is not a customer at said bank. 9:00 rolls around, and she waits for a teller... the teller says the computers are down and they can't help her. No idea when they'll be working again. She proceeds to the NEXT nearest branch, who confirm that they can help her after they have her place her fingerprint on the back of the check and collect a $5 "convenience fee."

When did this $5 fee become the norm? My credit union does not charge such a fee, and I'd tell them to take a hike if they ever did that to someone to whom I'd written a check. I understand that I am not a customer at the bank in question, but the writer of the check IS their customer. They are collecting fees from that person, and interest in the cash in their account(s). How do they justify charging me for doing their jobs? Do they $5 to release the funds to my bank if I deposit the check into my account?

I guess it's been a while since I cashed a check at a bank other than my own. I have never run into this "convenience fee" before. It just seems to defy all logic. It's only $5, but the principle of the matter irks me to no end. Sorry to rant!

Question. How do I (as the bank) know that you didn't forge that check? Yes, I checked, the account is valid and the funds are there. HOWEVER, how can I be sure that the check was written to you by the person? How do I know that you, the scumbag, didn't go steak a company check? I have seen Western Union and MoneyGram Money orders that look so good that I couldn't tell the difference. I have also seen Money Orders that have been bought, altered and now are uncollectable if the check casher tries to deposit it.

cscmc1 · #5 06-17-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Question. How do I (as the bank) know that you didn't forge that check? Yes, I checked, the account is valid and the funds are there. HOWEVER, how can I be sure that the check was written to you by the person? How do I know that you, the scumbag, didn't go steak a company check? I have seen Western Union and MoneyGram Money orders that look so good that I couldn't tell the difference. I have also seen Money Orders that have been bought, altered and now are uncollectable if the check casher tries to deposit it.

How does $5 tell them any of that?

aklim · #6 06-17-2010, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

How does $5 tell them any of that?

Call it a fee to cover the expense and loss if the check is bad. Much like Check Cashing places. They give you cash NOW as opposed to several days going thru the deposit system. They run the risk of the check being bad so they charge a fee to cover the few that are bad.

cscmc1 · #7 06-17-2010, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Call it a fee to cover the expense and loss if the check is bad. Much like Check Cashing places. They give you cash NOW as opposed to several days going thru the deposit system. They run the risk of the check being bad so they charge a fee to cover the few that are bad.

I have no problem whatsoever with check cashing places, or third party transactions being charged a fee. However, this particular practice is a new phenomenon (to me), and I find it disturbing. Take my fingerprint, and demand two forms of photo ID. That's fine... easy enough to provide. But charge me $5 to do your job? I'm not sure I'm down with that. If they can't tell a real check (one of their own!) from a fake, that's their problem; if it's that good a fake, hand it over (with my fingerprint on the back) to the feds and let them track me down.

I see your point... just frustrated that the bank decides it's OK to pass the potential costs of their incompetence along to me (if that is in fact their justification for charging me $5). Accordingly, I'll pass on ever becoming a member there if I can help it, and I'll let them know as much. Not much else I can do...

TnBob · #8 06-17-2010, 12:07 PM

My credit union does not charge for deposits.

cscmc1 · #9 06-17-2010, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TnBob

My credit union does not charge for deposits.

Nor does mine, but you run the risk of the check being bad. In this case, I wanted to confirm immediately that the check was good; if I'd deposited the check at my bank, it would take x number of business days to clear, during which time the issuer could have stopped payment, funds may have dipped below the amount the check was written for, etc...

Basically, I wanted to know the cash was in hand. I should have insisted on a cash payment, plain & simple.

aklim · #10 06-17-2010, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

If they can't tell a real check (one of their own!) from a fake, that's their problem;

if it's that good, hand it over (with my fingerprint on the back) to the feds and let them track me down.

I see your point... just frustrated that the bank decides it's OK to pass the potential costs of their incompetence along to me (if that is in fact their justification for charging me $5). Accordingly, I'll pass on ever becoming a member there if I can help it, and I'll let them know as much. Not much else I can do...

It is not that easy to tell. Believe me. I spent some time in the check cashing business and found a case where Jr stole Sr's checkbook and cashed a few checks. I have also seen checks that they cash that the writer comes back and claims it stolen. When the check is presented, there may be funds but 2 hrs later, there might not be funds.

To what end? You might have already spent the money so where does that leave me besides with the phyrric victory of maybe sending you to jail?

Yes there is something you can do. Deposit the check. The problem is that these days, the scams are so sophisticated that there is really no way to fix that.

aklim · #11 06-17-2010, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

Nor does mine, but you run the risk of the check being bad. In this case, I wanted to confirm immediately that the check was good; if I'd deposited the check at my bank, it would take x number of business days to clear, during which time the issuer could have stopped payment, funds may have dipped below the amount the check was written for, etc...

Basically, I wanted to know the cash was in hand. I should have insisted on a cash payment, plain & simple.

OK. So if you acknowledge that there could be problems and you didn't want to run the risk, why do you think that the bank should for free? Because that sounds like what you want. The business should have to stick their necks out for you for nothing where you are nice and safe should anything go wrong. What if the issuer comes back to say the check is stolen and they come after you and don't get their money? But you insist that you should be able to get the money now to keep yourself safe but the bank cannot?

cscmc1 · #12 06-17-2010, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

OK. So if you acknowledge that there could be problems and you didn't want to run the risk, why do you think that the bank should for free? Because that sounds like what you want. The business should have to stick their necks out for you for nothing where you are nice and safe should anything go wrong. What if the issuer comes back to say the check is stolen and they come after you and don't get their money? But you insist that you should be able to get the money now to keep yourself safe but the bank cannot?

The risks I mentioned are ones that the issuing bank can rule out at the time that they cash the check. The funds are there, or they aren't. The bank can tell that when I walk in and ask them to cash the check. Their customer could bounce a check at any given time; perhaps they should start charging THEM a $5 convenience fee on every check written (to cover their "risk")?

Banks assume risk every day; most businesses do. They only recently starting charging for this "assumption of risk" (again, assuming that is their justification for the $5 "convenience charge"). Furthermore, they are not sticking their necks out for nothing; their customers pay fees, they earn interest on the cash they hold, etc... So yes, they can probably afford to assume a bit of calculated risk. Like I said, I have no problem showing ID or even giving my fingerprint; they must collect that information for SOME reason, no? Presumably they seek recourse if I pull some kind of hanky panky.

aklim · #13 06-17-2010, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cscmc1

The risks I mentioned are ones that the issuing bank can rule out at the time that they cash the check. The funds are there, or they aren't. The bank can tell that when I walk in and ask them to cash the check.

Their customer could bounce a check at any given time; perhaps they should start charging THEM a $5 convenience fee on every check written (to cover their "risk")?

Banks assume risk every day; most businesses do. They only recently starting charging for this "assumption of risk" (again, assuming that is their justification for the $5 "convenience charge"). Furthermore, they are not sticking their necks out for nothing; their customers pay fees, they earn interest on the cash they hold, etc... So yes, they can probably afford to assume a bit of calculated risk.

Like I said, I have no problem showing ID or even giving my fingerprint; they must collect that information for SOME reason, no? Presumably they seek recourse if I pull some kind of hanky panky.

Again, not entirely true. They can tell if the funds are there at this time or not. HOWEVER, they cannot tell if the funds will be there at the time of deposit. If you look online, you can see that there will be pending transactions but they do not become final till midnight. There is a store that stopped taking checks because of that. They call the bank and the funds are there but 2 hrs later, the account is empty. So, when the credits and debits get done tonight, there might not be the funds there. Also, there could be $500 there in the account, enough to cover your $400 check but the guy might have 5 other checks totaling $5000 that are coming in tonight.

IIRC, my bank charges $37 for each bounced check. They have to take the risk with me because while I am a SOB, I am THEIR SOB. You aren't at all related so they have even less recourse with you.

Because, we aren't living in the time of Beaver anymore. Today's scams are so sophisticated that it is very hard to stop.

I had $4000 worth of bad checks when I worked for the check cashing industry. I'll bet the manager would sell them all to you for $500 CASH. You go collect on them. What is the point of knowing who you are if you have nothing I can collect? Even if I throw you in jail, I am still out the $4000.

cscmc1 · #14 06-17-2010, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

Again, not entirely true. They can tell if the funds are there at this time or not. HOWEVER, they cannot tell if the funds will be there at the time of deposit. If you look online, you can see that there will be pending transactions but they do not become final till midnight. There is a store that stopped taking checks because of that. They call the bank and the funds are there but 2 hrs later, the account is empty. So, when the credits and debits get done tonight, there might not be the funds there. Also, there could be $500 there in the account, enough to cover your $400 check but the guy might have 5 other checks totaling $5000 that are coming in tonight.

IIRC, my bank charges $37 for each bounced check. They have to take the risk with me because while I am a SOB, I am THEIR SOB. You aren't at all related so they have even less recourse with you.

Because, we aren't living in the time of Beaver anymore. Today's scams are so sophisticated that it is very hard to stop.

I had $4000 worth of bad checks when I worked for the check cashing industry. I'll bet the manager would sell them all to you for $500 CASH. You go collect on them. What is the point of knowing who you are if you have nothing I can collect? Even if I throw you in jail, I am still out the $4000.

Interesting. Sounds like the "effective at midnight" scenario is causing lots of problems. Wonder why they don't bite the bullet and absorb the cost of a more instantaneous system? Sounds to me like it would be a worthwhile investment if it's causing the level of disruption you suggest.

I do have a question: these "pending transactions" that one can see online -- what do they consist of? Is there a dollar figure attached?

On the last point, I agree entirely. I would be happy to support legislation that would keep a person in prison, laboring, until they had repaid their debt. Unfortunately, no
one's got the cojones to introduce such law. Oh well.

Meantime, I'll stick with my credit union, where such fees aren't levied. Maybe it's a reflection on their overall efficiency compared to institutions like US Bank.

Jorn · #15 06-17-2010, 02:15 PM

I call it an "illegal alien fee". With out the proper paper work you can't have a bank account, banks realized they could make lots of money out of all the day-workers and nanny's that come in on Fridays to cash their checks.

Wells Fargo does see it as a service to illegal aliens...