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  #1  
Old 09-09-2010, 12:24 PM
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Some Officers Don't Want "another John Kerry"

US Army Witholds Purple Heart for Combat Soldiers with Traumatic Brain Injuries


some senior medical officials opposed giving out the Purple Heart for invisible injuries. He said one fellow medical officer — whom he did not identify — told him that he feared creating "another John Kerry" by giving out the Purple Heart for concussions.

During the 2004 presidential campaign, some political opponents mocked Sen. Kerry, D-Mass., the Democratic nominee, for receiving three Purple Hearts for shrapnel wounds he got during the Vietnam War, which critics deemed too minor to deserve recognition. In the last of these actions, Kerry also received a Bronze Star.


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Old 09-09-2010, 12:29 PM
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Sadly, many Vietnam-era Purple Hearts might be a bit suspect. My dad was able to acquire a couple of Air Force mattresses for an Army unit in-country, and the supply Sgt. on the Army and of the deal tired to reward him with a Purple Heart and a pair of 1911A1's. Dad refused, and settled for a case of steaks to distribute among his guys.

Apparently Purple Hearts were not that difficult to acquire if you knew the right folks.

Interesting article there, though. Thanks for posting.
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Old 09-09-2010, 12:43 PM
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When I heard the story this morning, I was distrubed that deserving soldiers were being denied the medal for quasi-political reasons. There is no ambiguity in the long standing rule for the award of the medal, which includes concussions. This should not be a semantic issue by our military.
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Old 09-09-2010, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTI View Post
US Army Witholds Purple Heart for Combat Soldiers with Traumatic Brain Injuries


some senior medical officials opposed giving out the Purple Heart for invisible injuries. He said one fellow medical officer — whom he did not identify — told him that he feared creating "another John Kerry" by giving out the Purple Heart for concussions.

During the 2004 presidential campaign, some political opponents mocked Sen. Kerry, D-Mass., the Democratic nominee, for receiving three Purple Hearts for shrapnel wounds he got during the Vietnam War, which critics deemed too minor to deserve recognition. In the last of these actions, Kerry also received a Bronze Star.

It wasn't his "last action" but Kerry also received the Silver Star for actions on Feb. 28, 1969. I belieive that was the time he beached his craft and ran down a VC and killed him.

His Bronze Star was awarded for actions on March 13th, 1969.

His timeline:
Nov. 1968 Arrived RVN
Dec. 2, 1968. First Purple Heart.
Feb. 20, 1969. 2nd Purple Heart
Feb. 28, 1969. Silver Star.
March 13, 1969. 3rd Purple Heart. (and Bronze Star)
March 17, 1969. Requested transfer.
April, 1969 Departed RVN
Days lost from duty: 0
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:22 PM
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I didnt vote for Kerry but I always respected the fact that he did not weasel out of duty and that he did see action. I did not much like the after war activities, but free speech is part of what he fought for so he deserved to have his say
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:35 PM
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'Some senior Medical Officers'....

Who cares what they think? Are they in a position to just make things up as they go along? There are rules for this sort of award and just because one of them might have been awarded in the past for reasons that might be suspect is no reason for some Officer somewhere to decide he is not going to follow the rules.
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:40 PM
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Navy Inspector General report on medals

In September 2004, Vice Admiral Ronald A. Route, the Navy Inspector General, completed a review of Kerry's combat medals, initiated at the request of Judicial Watch. In a memo to the Secretary of the Navy, Gordon England, Route stated:[79]
“ Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed. In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards

Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive. The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place.

Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter.

more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy
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Old 09-09-2010, 11:45 PM
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It amazes me that people are still trying to smear Kerry's name and they let Mr. '5 deferment" Cheney and Mr "cake walk NG in IN" Bush skate with out so much as a smack on the hand. What a load of crap.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:34 AM
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Bush was a fighter jock which ain't chump change. Don't know much about Cheney. And Kerrys "active pursuit" of medals he did not deserve is well documented. He had a couple of scratches and got a Purple heart. His "valor" medal was for chasing down a barefoot VC after tearing up a village with a .50 cal.

Yes he was there, but it disrespects those who actually fought and EARNED their medals. A real hero never asks for a medal. Kerry did.

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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
It ama
zes me that people are still trying to smear Kerry's name and they let Mr. '5 deferment" Cheney and Mr "cake walk NG in IN" Bush skate with out so much as a smack on the hand. What a load of crap.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Emmerich View Post
Bush was a fighter jock which ain't chump change. Don't know much about Cheney. And Kerrys "active pursuit" of medals he did not deserve is well documented. He had a couple of scratches and got a Purple heart. His "valor" medal was for chasing down a barefoot VC after tearing up a village with a .50 cal.

Yes he was there, but it disrespects those who actually fought and EARNED their medals. A real hero never asks for a medal. Kerry did.
Bush was given an appointment to the ANG by his daddy's friends. After the Air Force spent considerable money training Dubya to be a pilot, he missed his flight physical-which included a drug test- and was taken off flight status, where he remained for the rest of his military obligation.
His last physical test had been in May 1971. Major General Paul A Weaver Jr, who retired in 2002 as head of the Pentagon's Air National Guard, said: "There is no excuse for that. Aviators just don't miss their flight physicals." After inspecting Bush's brief record of flying, Weaver said: "I would not have let him near the airplane." Weaver added: "It appears that nobody wanted to hold him accountable." Former friends of the Bush family have said that Bush was sent to Alabama as he kept "getting in trouble and embarrassing the family". Bush hid in the ANG because he didn't want to go to Viet Nam. Cheney had "other things to do". Like getting busted for drunk driving at least twice.
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Old 09-10-2010, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonkovich View Post
Navy Inspector General report on medals

In September 2004, Vice Admiral Ronald A. Route, the Navy Inspector General, completed a review of Kerry's combat medals, initiated at the request of Judicial Watch. In a memo to the Secretary of the Navy, Gordon England, Route stated:[79]
“ Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed. In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found that they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards

Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive. The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable, and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place.

Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active duty activities were public and that military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter.

more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
It amazes me that people are still trying to smear Kerry's name and they let Mr. '5 deferment" Cheney and Mr "cake walk NG in IN" Bush skate with out so much as a smack on the hand. What a load of crap.
Poor Senator "I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the president of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia. I have that memory which is seared -- seared -- in me."

Maybe if he wasn’t a serial liar people would have more faith in his view of other events!

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A27211-2004Aug23.html

Cambodia mission
One chapter of SBVT's Unfit for Command questions Kerry's repeated statement that he was in Cambodia during Christmas, 1968.[39]
For example, on March 27, 1986, in arguing against United States aid to the Nicaraguan Contras, Kerry made a speech to the Senate that, among other things, touched on the Vietnam war:

“Mr. President, how quickly do we forget? How quickly do we forget? No one wanted to widen the war in Vietnam, We heard that, Let me remind you of what we said during that period of time.
[Kerry then set forth more than a dozen statements of American leaders with respect to the Vietnam war. He concluded the summary with the following:]

Finally, President Nixon, 1970. "In cooperation with the armed forces of South Vietnam, attacks are being launched this week to clear out major enemy sanctuaries on the Cambodian-Vietnam border."

Mr. President, I remember Christmas of 1968 sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by Vietnamese and Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and have the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there; the troops were not in Cambodia.

I have that memory which is seared-seared-in me, that says to me, before we send another generation into harm's way we have a responsibility in the U.S. Senate to go the last step, to make the best effort possible in order to avoid that kind of conflict. Mr. President, good intentions are not enough to keep us out of harm's way. ”

According to the Boston Globe biography of Kerry, he later recalled that after the Christmas Eve incident, he "began to develop a deep mistrust of U.S. government pronouncements…."[61]

In a 1979 article in the Boston Herald, Kerry wrote of being shot at five miles over the Cambodian border on Christmas Eve 1968, stating,
“The absurdity of almost being killed by our own allies in a country in which President Nixon claimed there were no American troops was very real. ”
At the time, President Lyndon Johnson had denied overt military incursions across the Cambodian border, while covert MACV-SOG Special reconnaissance operations were active and ongoing. Richard Nixon was actually president-elect in December 1968, and he had not yet issued his own denial.

Kerry did not claim to have been sent on a covert mission to Cambodia on Christmas Eve, 1968. Rather, he believed at the time he had crossed the border while on a patrol near the border, during which the boats were ambushed and later came under friendly fire from South Vietnamese soldiers.[39][61]

No official documentation of any accidental or other incursion by either of Kerry's boats has been discovered. In addition, none of Kerry's crewmates have confirmed ever being sent to Cambodia. One of Kerry's crewmen, SBVT member Steven Gardner,[62] asserted that it was physically impossible to cross the Cambodian border, as it was blocked and patrolled by PBRs (a type of patrol boat);[63] however, Kerry's boat was evidently patrolling with PBRs during the mission in question.[64] Some crewmembers have, moreover, stated that they may at some point have entered Cambodia without knowing it. James Wasser, who was on PCF-44 on that December mission, while saying that he believed they were "very, very close" to Cambodia, did not recall actually crossing over; he also stated that it was very hard to tell their exact position in the border area. Kerry's own journal entry on this, written the night of the mission, does not specifically say they entered Cambodia. However, it does state that PCF-44 was somewhere "toward Cambodia" to provide cover for two smaller patrol boats, and in sarcasm, that he considered messaging Christmas greetings to his commanders "from the most inland Market Time unit" and that a court martial for the incident "would make sense"[64] In addition, George Elliott noted in Kerry's fitness report that he had been in an ambush during the 24 hour Christmas truce, which began on Christmas Eve.[65]

Michael Meehan, a spokesman for the Kerry campaign, responded to SBVT's charges with a statement that Kerry was referring to a period when Nixon had been president-elect and before he was inaugurated. Meehan went on to state that Kerry had been "deep in enemy waters" between Vietnam and Cambodia and that his boat came under fire at the Cambodian border. Meehan also said that Kerry did covertly cross over into Cambodia to drop off special operations forces on a later occasion, but that there was no paperwork for such missions and he could not supply dates.[66]
Based on examination of Kerry's journals and logbook, historian Douglas Brinkley placed the covert missions soon after Christmas.

In an interview with the London Daily Telegraph, Brinkley stated that Kerry had gone into Cambodian waters three or four times in January and February 1969 on clandestine missions, dropping off U.S. Seals, Green Berets, and CIA operatives. Brinkley added:
“He was a ferry master, a drop-off guy, but it was dangerous as hell. Kerry carries a hat he was given by one CIA operative. In a part of his journals which I didn't use he writes about discussions with CIA guys he was dropping off.[67][68]

In an interview with Tim Russert on "Meet the Press," Kerry corrected his 1979 statement about being "five miles across the border" on Christmas Eve, but reiterated that he was on a patrol at the border at that date and had been sent on a covert mission at a later date.[69]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Kerry_military_service_controversy
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  #12  
Old 09-10-2010, 10:02 AM
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John Forbes Kerry's VN service record will always be quesitoned. Only he knows his motives in requesting Patrol craft Brown Water Navy duty.

He requested a transfer from the USS Gridley to that PC duty in Feb. 1968, after the Gridley left for a tour in VN waters. When the Gridley returned in June '68, Kerry was transferred to PC training and ended up in VN in Nov 1968.

His arrival coincided with the appointment of Elmo Zumwalt as head of the US Naval forces in Vietnam. Zumwalt dramatically changed the focus of the the Navy in-shore and river activities. The duty became much more dangerous and risky for the swift boats:
"By the late 1960s, the Swift Boat would commence operations alongside the PBR's in the inland waters, as well as maintaining operations along the coast line." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brown_water_navy


So, he picks up three shrapnel scratches in the next few months and requests a transfer out. Time in country: 4 months. Normal tour in VN was 12 months I believe.


As far as the Kerry did/Bush didn't argument goes, Kerry graduated and enlisted in '66. Duty honor country still was still in fashion. Bush graduated in '68. The Feb '68 Tet offensive turned a lot of folks opinions around about the war. The worm really turned in those two years. Most everyone who could was seeking deferrments. If the birthdates were reversed, so too may have the service records, especially Kerry, given his post service anti-war activities.

I have my opinions about Kerry's career and his motives. I respect his service but I am skeptical about his motives. But it's ancient history at this point.

Last edited by dynalow; 09-10-2010 at 12:38 PM.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:37 AM
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Criteria for Purple Heart, Including Concussion

(e) Concussion injuries caused as a result of enemy generated explosions.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:46 AM
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Kerry was there. Whether he got his dates and or locations mixed up I don't know. He was there, he got injured and he asked to be transferred out. Did someone pull strings for him to get out? I have not heard anything to that effect. Cheney got 5 deferments. The last one was a education one that he drop out of. Bush got daddy to pull some strings.

You can try and spin that any way you want. Bush and Cheney did not every see combat and they seem all to eager to send others into combat.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:52 AM
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My War Hero Son received two purple hearts in the Afghan war.

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