EPA Going a Little Too Far? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

retmil46 · #1 09-12-2010, 12:31 PM

http://statter911.com/2010/04/18/the-regeneration-gap-a-fire-chief-wrestles-with-front-line-apparatus-time-outs-due-to-epa-diesel-emission-regulations/

#2 09-12-2010, 12:36 PM

Sounds like this FD needs to figure out how to schedule PM on their equipment.

MTUpower · #3 09-12-2010, 12:44 PM

Government is a entity, and like all entities it's ultimate goal is survival and growth. The EPA does not care if it regulates private peoples world or FD's world.

retmil46 · #4 09-12-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Craig

Sounds like this FD needs to figure out how to schedule PM on their equipment.

May be some truth to that. But from reading thru the comments as well, it seems that not all manufacturers are putting manual override switches, or providing the appropriate software, to help the FD/EMS units prevent this from keeping them from answering calls as needed.

And in the case of some localities, there may not be any reserve equipment available in these days of tight budgets, or the response call load may be such that it's well nigh impossible to schedule the required down time for regen. Along the "tight budget" line, it certainly doesn't help local budgets having to buy the extra diesel fuel when these beasts have to run for a half-hour or better just to burn the soot out of the particulate filter.

And at least with the Class 8 post-2007 rigs we built at Freightliner, there's going to come a point where after so many cancelled cycles, the ECM is going to force you to keep the truck idle at the side of the road until it does complete a full regen cycle.

I'd say the gent's overall argument does have some merit - just as it would be sheer lunacy to force an M-1 tank crew in a combat zone to have to worry about a requirement such as this, the FD/EMS units already have more than enough on their plates trying to respond to calls and save lives, not to mention often having to deal with situations that threaten their own lives, than to also have to deal with such bureaucratic nonsense.

Hatterasguy · #5 09-12-2010, 01:23 PM

This is a perfect example of the law of diminishing returns. Modern diesels are clean enough, they don't need this silly filters.

If I bought a new diesel MB I would figure out a hack to remove all this crap. I'm sure in a few years as they get older it will be pretty common.

rscurtis · #6 09-12-2010, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hatterasguy

This is a perfect example of the law of diminishing returns. Modern diesels are clean enough, they don't need this silly filters.

If I bought a new diesel MB I would figure out a hack to remove all this crap. I'm sure in a few years as they get older it will be pretty common.

You are absolutely correct, my 2003 Dodge is 90% clean with no emission controls at all, and has excellent FE to boot. The oil stays clean almost indefinitely, and after a tank of fuel (which can last 800 miles), the exhaust stain on the bumper is a faint bluish-gold haze. Look at the Diesel Technology Forum's emission chart, and you'll see how much effort has been expended for very little improvement.

Hatterasguy · #7 09-12-2010, 08:34 PM

Yep, right now we need to focus more on fuel economy than emissions. 90% clean is good enough, the extra 10% costs to much and kills economy.

#8 09-12-2010, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

May be some truth to that. But from reading thru the comments as well, it seems that not all manufacturers are putting manual override switches, or providing the appropriate software, to help the FD/EMS units prevent this from keeping them from answering calls as needed.

And in the case of some localities, there may not be any reserve equipment available in these days of tight budgets, or the response call load may be such that it's well nigh impossible to schedule the required down time for regen. Along the "tight budget" line, it certainly doesn't help local budgets having to buy the extra diesel fuel when these beasts have to run for a half-hour or better just to burn the soot out of the particulate filter.

And at least with the Class 8 post-2007 rigs we built at Freightliner, there's going to come a point where after so many cancelled cycles, the ECM is going to force you to keep the truck idle at the side of the road until it does complete a full regen cycle.

I'd say the gent's overall argument does have some merit - just as it would be sheer lunacy to force an M-1 tank crew in a combat zone to have to worry about a requirement such as this, the FD/EMS units already have more than enough on their plates trying to respond to calls and save lives, not to mention often having to deal with situations that threaten their own lives, than to also have to deal with such bureaucratic nonsense.

I agree that the FDs need to specify equipment with the appropriate software so they can schedule maintenance before it interferes with emergency functions and/or bypass this function during an actual emergency. I would be concerned that such a system could be abused, so someone's job should depend on maintaining it correctly. Regarding "tight budgets," life's tough in the big city; they might need to buy extra equipment to meet this requirement, just like anyone else who depends on heavy equipment.

I don't really know/care about the limitations of military applications, they can go get whatever exceptions they need for their vehicles.

Rahulio1989300E · #9 09-12-2010, 12:40 PM

Well, in this case, I think so... these DPF systems should not get in the way of emergency services at the very least.

I am more worried about CAFE at the moment. They seem hellbent on forcing us all into crappy, boring econoboxes...

Kuan · #10 09-12-2010, 03:32 PM

I'd like to see a building regenerate after it burns down.

cmac2012 · #11 09-12-2010, 04:22 PM

Does seem whack all right. What struck me is business of warning light only. There ought to be a way to put on a gauge, so they can anticipate the need ahead of time. Or at the very least, have an over-ride for emergency vehicles that is good for a day or two.

And why they couldn't just swap in a new filter and send the old ones to some station to be dealt with is beyond me. One hopes the EPA will quickly realize that this is a needless detriment to their public image.

I've not had experience with this setup. The filter can regenerate itself?

Txjake · #12 09-13-2010, 12:38 AM

the EPA has been out of control for years. they recently shelved plans to ban lead bullets. that is just a for instance. they are hard core greenies who don't give a s#$t about Joe everyman's wishes

rscurtis · #13 09-13-2010, 09:41 AM

You can also thank them for the demise of heavy manufacturing in this country (smokestack industries). I wonder how much the unemployed Ohio steel worker or Detroit auto worker is enjoying all the clean air and water as he/she sits on the front porch of their now worthless house.

cmac2012 · #14 09-14-2010, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Txjake

the EPA has been out of control for years. they recently shelved plans to ban lead bullets. that is just a for instance. they are hard core greenies who don't give a s#$t about Joe everyman's wishes

Lead buckshot has a pretty big toxic impact on some areas. It is going to be near impossible to convince good ol' boys to give up lead shot, I'll admit.

10fords · #15 09-14-2010, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmac2012

Lead buckshot has a pretty big toxic impact on some areas. It is going to be near impossible to convince good ol' boys to give up lead shot, I'll admit.

Can you show any evidence or study that backs that up? I have not been able to find any. Even though lead has been banned in the Condor range- guess what? The Condors are still dying! It's called evolution.