One way to deal with people with which you disagree is to try to silence them. This is done in politics all the time by people of all parties. It's a strategy that is very effective and at the same time very un American.

In this country we are given, among other freedoms, the Freedom of Speech. You're supposed to be able to say whatever you like about whomever you wish. This does not carry over into all areas of our lives of course. We can go tell our boss that he is ugly and mean. We have the right to do that without risk of jail time, but there would probably be OTHER consequences. Being fired because someone else sneaked around at work and told your boss you said such a thing when you didn't would be another situation and very sleazy.

For the same reason there are certain rules to follow on a forum such as this. There are penalties for not following them.

It would seem that in order to preserve the Freedom of Speech for yourself, it would be only fair that it be preserved for those with which you do not agree as well.

I would not work toward seeing that ANYONE on this forum was banned. If the moderators and powers that be decide that on their own so be it, but my ethics would not allow me to lobby for such a thing to happen, or throw gasoline on such a fire.

Personally, I deal with the idiots and trolls by putting them on my ignore list; there are a few people who I consider to be a waste of O2 and simple don't want cluttering up my screen. I really don't care who is banned, but this is a private forum with rules; anyone who chooses not to follow those rules may suffer the consequences.

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with american politics, where just about any crazy has no problem finding a platform resulting in a very high noise to signal ratio.

Just so we're clear..........because I sense another dissatisfaction rant...........

1) Nobody can "lobby" for the removal of another member. Folks can lobby for an infraction if they press that moderator notification button, but understand that only about 40% of those notifications actually result in any action by us. Many members wish us to fight their battles when they get behind in a position............we will not get into it.
2) Folks can generally say what they want, independent of their political persuasion, with three noted exceptions (not exclusive):

a) Insults to other members are not permitted.
b) Trolling with the intent to inflame or rant without the desire for meaningful discussion is not permitted.
c) Posts that are beyond the bounds of normal decency are not permitted.


As I mentioned to you via PM, and will state again for all to read:

The OP has some additional responsibility with regard to the intent of his thread. If the original post is heavily biased with an intent to inflame the opposition or an intent to rant, it will earn a trolling infraction and be deleted. This board is for discussion............it is not a place to take your last stand and attempt to shoot down the opposition. If that's your desire, find another forum.

End the filibuster!

__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman

Larry, I love and respect you.

In your posts about fixing old mercedes diesels you are cool, clear, informed and generous.

When you get into the political arena you seem to become very emotional. Please try to remember that arguing politics rarely results in changing someone's mind, especially if they tend toward a different political persuasion than yourself.

I have a co worker who hired in and into the same department at purdue with me who tends toward getting emotional when under stress, which is most all of the time because he is an ambitious person. Unfortunately his body language and facial expressions betray his every emotion and often probably portray more than he actually feels. Even though he is very capable and I respect him very much I am afraid he is working himself toward getting let go becuase of what essentially is caring a little too much. There is so much in a big university like PU that is completely out of our control that if one gets emotional about every little setback one can make themselves sick. (or get let go).

When it comes to politics Larry, I want to say to you the same as I tell my friend at work....you gotta just care less, go with the flow more and allow yourself to be on an even keel emotionally.

I don't wanna lose your generous and sharing spirit on every front (perhaps excepting the political front) due to you allowing yourself to get too wound up about politics.

Just remember in politics (and life) ....this too will change. Whatever is happening today the pendulum will swing the other way soon enough.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

I'm doing my best to understand how the above original post is "heavily biased with an intent to inflame." Rather it is a statement of my position regarding behavior such as lobbying for infractions with the intent to result in a ban. That's all.

After stating my position clearly and also clearly indicating that I will not participate in such a thing, I am simply hoping that others might take this into consideration before deciding to pile on to someone. I like to think that EVERYONE has a conscience regardless of their personal opinions and beliefs. Hopefully I'm not simply naive in my Optimistic opinion of human nature.

The OP is not heavily biased and there is no intent to inflame. I simply utilized the venue as a forum to restate the position with regard to our moderation of this board and to further reinforce the fact that nobody can "lobby" for an infraction to another member.

That's all.

Thanks for the kind words and concern.

The interesting thing is that at work I've almost always been the most calm person in the room. and learned very early on, that discussing politics at work is a no win.

In my days of climbing the ladder of an up and coming software company, I always was promoted ahead of the emotional people that you describe. I had no less passion for my work, but I learned that using that energy for effectiveness is much more productive than using it for outbursts.

if you dont agree, dont listen. no one should silence anyone or we all lose.

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1982 300CD Turbo (Otis, "ups & downs") parts for sale
2003 TJ with Hemi (to go anywhere, quickly) sold
2001 Excursion Powerstroke (to go dependably)
1970 Mustang 428SCJ (to go fast)
1962 Corvette LS1 (to go in style)
2001 Schwinn Grape Krate 10spd (if all else fails)

Is this like forum seppuku?

__________________
68 280SL - 70 280SL - 70 300SEL 3.5 - 72 350SL - 72 280SEL 4.5 - 72 220 - 72 220D - 73 450SL - 84 230GE - 87 200TD - 90 190E 2.0 - 03 G500

Nissan GTR - Nissan Skyline GTS25T - Toyota GTFour - Rover Mini - Toyota Land Cruiser HJ60 - Cadillac Eldorado - BMW E30 - BMW 135i

I think a lot of moderation comes into play not because of the inflamatory nature of a particular post but more because people simply can't refrain from responding and escalating the argument.

I find it humorous and at the same time sad, how emotional people get when they're sucked into these situations.

At the same time, there's no reason to intentionally troll for a reaction.

__________________
-Evan


Benz Fleet:
1968 UNIMOG 404.114
1998 E300
2008 E63


Non-Benz Fleet:
1992 Aerostar
1993 MR2
2000 F250

What? It is un-American to silence those with whom you disagree?

Somebody needs to tell Rush Limbaugh about this! For years and years he has been telling his fans to not read the New York Times. He also slams anyone who disagrees with him and really comes down hard on The Daily Kos and Talking Points Memo calling them 'fake web sites'. Is anyone trying to drop hints that Rush is un-American?

By the way.. If you are a reader of 'Motor Trend' then you have, according to Rush, been taken in by the Lamestream Media. Motor Trend named the Chevy Volt as their Car of the Year and Rush went nuts over it since he is a confirmed GM hater. He let everyone know just what he thought of those Commies at Motor Trend. That will show them!

But the Editor of Motor Trend, who must be a hard core Leftie, let Rush know just what he thought of Rush's opinion and it was not pretty. For some reason new subscriptions to Motor Trend are going through the roof even though Rush has clearly pointed out that they don't know what they are talking about when it comes to autos.

I, for one, am grateful for Rush's guiding hand in all of this. Without him telling me what to read, what not to read, what to think and who to vote for I would likely have to do all of that for myself. To quote Laura Ingraham, "It makes my head hurt!"

Motor Trend's Editor suggested Rush borrow a Volt from GM for a few weeks and then see what he thinks about it, and to also lay off the Oxycontin while he is driving.

I wonder if he will do either?

My $.02
You know fellas, we're all "standing" in someone's place of business, not a Yahoo chatroom. My local MB dealer, Precision Auto of Atlantic City, has a customer waiting area with a TV, coffee pot, etc. I like to mentally place myself in such a setting when I post here.
You start speaking too loudly or in a vulgar manner, if I'm the owner, I'll have my GM speak to you. Politely at first, but if push comes to shove: "Mind your manners or GTFO".

Overall. imo, the "GM"'s here do a decent enough job. I scratch my head at a few of the wrist slaps given out or not given out, but hey, buy your merchandise, share your inputs and move on.

But, yeah, I'm old fashioned. I come from a time and a place where manners mattered. But, of course, we all come from differrent places.

Larry- I know what you are talking about. When someone doesn't agree with your views they pull the racist or bigot card to try and negate your input on a subject. I am so sick of people crying racism or intolerance every time something doesn't go their way that I could just puke. There definitely is a double standard for intolerance too. Can you imagine the outcry if Kerry's post on the Pope saying it is OK for gay priests to use condoms when having sex with altar boys had said the same thing except about muslim clerics? I'm sure it would have been deleted post haste, and all kinds of cries of intolerance and bigotry would have been hurled at the OP. Don't get me wrong- I think that neither point of view, no matter how offensive, should be silenced. I understand the need to keep things civil, but it seems that its OK to offend people with traditional values, but heaven help you if you don't accept and acknowledge moral relativism in all its forms. All that being said- If something offends you just ignore it. If a troll can't find anyone to argue with they will wither up and go away. Personally I find your posts to be genuinely thought provoking and in search of real discussion in a way that is not normally seen on this forum (myself included). Unfortunately, since you seem to have traditional values you are under constant attack and threat from those who would like to silence you. Please don't let them.

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1984 300TD 1981 240D

X2, the ignore list is an under used feature of vBulletin, especially for members whose unwaivering belief is that if they have "the last word" then they have achieved some sort of victory.