A client has an elaborate arrangement in his front yard, a pond fed by a 8 foot or so long "creek" above it, with faux waterfall, a small one. They run their personal training business out of their home and go to lengths to make their place a tranquil oasis. There's a freeway not far away, over the hill, you can hear a faint roar so the babbling brook affair was an attempt to mask it with some white noise. Works fairly well.

The pump has gone south in some way as it doesn't run, keeps tripping the GFI switch. I installed a new one, as those things get tired in 5 to 7 years in my experience - no change.

It's not a small pump, this is a fair amount of water being pushed. He said he thinks it cost around $400.

Am I a fool to think it might be repairable? I'm guessing some sort of seal has gone south. I could have bypassed the GFI to see if the pump runs, taking care not to come in contact with the water, which wouldn't be hard. That would at least be a possible clue that it doesn't have a fried motor, but rather is leaking water, tripping the GFI.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

I've a couple of small water features, nothing as elaborate as you're describing, and I've found 99% of all my GFI faults are due to wiring problems. Double check the wires. Usually someone has moved something over the wires, planted something and clipped the insulation, a portion has become exposed to the sun and rotted, etc.

I supposed the larger pumps can be re-sealed or rebuilt but I doubt it.

I would doubt if the pump itself is repairable, once water get in there it's over, without a lot of effort.

Agree with checking the wiring, verify you have a solid ground to the panel at the GFI.

Plug something else into the outlet and run it, that could isolate the pump as the issue.

Consider a GFI breaker (if it's a dedicated circuit), a pain to have to reset though.
It could tell you if the wiring from the house to the outlet is bad somewhere. Replace the external GFI with a standard outlet, replace the breaker with a GFI. If it trips with nothing plugged in you have a bad wire out to the outlet.

Check the cord to the pump.

I used to agree with you that GFIs tended to have a lifespan, I haven't noticed that for a while though. Most in my house are 10 plus years old, tested regularly (a couple of times a year at least) and seem to be functioning fine.

__________________
KLK, MCSE

1990 500SL

I was always taught to respect my elders.
I don't have to respect too many people anymore.

How is the pump hooked to the gfci recep? Usually the pump has a length of waterproof cord that you run directly to the gfci and plug in(although I prefer to hardwire them directly to the load side of the gfci). Is there a splice somewhere inbetween that could be getting wet? Since you have already replaced the pump I would recommend replacing the gfci outlet especially if it is a Leviton brand. they are junk. I like the Pass and Seymour Trademaster brand which is available at professional supply houses and some Ace hardware stores. Get the 20 amp one.
Does the gfci trip immediately or after the pump has run awhile? If you can, run an extension cord to another gfci and see what happens
If the pump plugs into the gfci make sure you have an "in use" cover to keep moisture out, although even those don't always work 100% which is why I prefer to hardwire.
Oh, and just to make it more fun I have bought new pumps that had enough leakage current out of the box to trip a gfci! That is why I now test them before I bury them in water.

__________________
1984 300TD 1981 240D

It's not completely clear to me, but the way I read it, cmac2012 has already changed the GFCI, and is asking about the possibility of repairing the pump.

I appreciate the tip on your brand preference for GFCI receptacle. I'll have to see if my local Ace carries them.

I find that sort of information potentially useful, as there really can be a difference between brands. I learned that with the dimmer for an often-used light fixture in our house. The ones I'm using now are outlasting - by a significant margin - the brand I used to use.

I gathered that he had replaced the pump but not the gfci? Either way though the pumps are usually not repairable unless it is a larger one, and even then it is rarely cost effective.

I'm glad you find my info useful- I feel like I need to help out in my area of expertise as I have been helped out tremendously by the Mercedes experts on this forum. Without them I would be in a sad state of repairs!

__________________
1984 300TD 1981 240D

I too appreciate the brand advice. Yet another reason I wish I'd done an actual apprenticeship in both electric and plumbing. I think the GFI I put in, the new one, was a Leviton, almost certain actually.

The line to the pump is buried with about 8 inches above ground where it plugs into the GFI which does have a decent waterproof plastic box/cover affair. The box was installed as a dedicated source for the pump. It's in an isolated spot behind a bush and some large rocks. We also use it for his semi-large Christmas tree light setup, the part out on the street anyway, and have for a few years with no trouble. The plug head and line look flawless. Could be the line somehow got damaged underground but I sorta doubt it.

I was going to drain the pond yesterday (we bought a small portable pump for another job at the house a while back) - the pump is at the bottom of a 3 foot or so sump affair at the point where the waterfall joins the pond - but it was raining lightly and the client thought the rain would refill the pond as it was draining. It wouldn't but no need to tell the client he's wrong in this case, as he had some other work that needed doing.

I'll drain it in a couple of days and take a closer look at the pump. I suspect he's having me do it as opposed to the guy who installed it who would probably charge $100 an hour for his crew.

Thanks for all the tips. I did try something else, my skilsaw, in the GFI w/o the pump plugged in and it worked normally. The GFI clicks off the instant the plug is inserted. The pond/creek thing has been working well for at least 4 years. Doesn't seem that long for a pump lifespan, then again, it runs about 14 - 16 hours a day on a timer year round.

There are a few local listings in the Yellow pages for pump repair - surprised me a bit as the peninsula area (south of SF) often doesn't have a good selection of industrial type repair facilities.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

If the gfci trips immediately when you plug in the pump then the pump is likely the problem. I would replace the gfci anyway as I have ZERO confidence in Leviton. I had a troubleshoot not to long ago where the gfci was tripping on a fountain pump exactly like you describe and I replaced the Leviton gfci on principle before going to get a new pump and voila the problem was solved! I'm unclear on whether or not you replaced the pump though. If not 4 years of daily use is not a bad lifespan in my experience, and the pump may still work just fine plugged into a regular outlet, but the wear on the motor is causing enough leakage current to trip the gfci. Good luck.

__________________
1984 300TD 1981 240D

I think you may be right on the pump lifespan. That's a lot of rpms.

I haven't replaced the pump yet. Haven't drained it yet to even look at it. it's going to be a less than pleasant job to run the new line under the rocks that ring the pond, but oh well, that's why I make the big bucks.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K

It is probably the shaft seal is worn and let water seeps into the body of the pump. It probably is repairable. I have changed out seal on swimming pool pump seal. It is the same principle. Submersible pump is fully enclosed with the exception of the shaft/impeller which pumps the water. Swimming pool pump is not enclosed.

You may be lucky that the GFCI protected the motor windings when water seeped into the rotor part. You need to open it up, drain the water and check for rust. Replace the pump seal, check for leak and it should be good to go.

Good luck.

p.s. if the pump casing is crimped on then you are out of luck.

__________________
Not MBZ nor A/C trained professional but a die-hard DIY and green engineer. Use the info at your own peril. Picked up 2 Infractions because of disagreements. NOW reversed.

W124 Keyless remote, PM for details. http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/mercedes-used-parts-sale-wanted/334620-fs-w124-chasis-keyless-remote-%2450-shipped.html

1 X 2006 CDI
1 x 87 300SDL
1 x 87 300D
1 x 87 300TDT wagon
1 x 83 300D
1 x 84 190D ( 5 sp ) - All R134 converted + keyless entry.

Good point. By-passsing the GFI wouldn't accomplish anything. I have to take the thing out anyway.

__________________
1986 300SDL, 362K
1984 300D, 138K