Texas traffic jury trial -Necessity defense - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

panZZer · #1 12-29-2010, 03:55 PM

In Texas and a few other states like Illinois, a moving violation is a criminal offense and you can request a jury trial.
So im reaching out to my favorite forum--Because of the abundance of smart people-bound to be a lawyer in here --Honus?

el presidente · #2 12-29-2010, 04:05 PM

Paging MTI....

panZZer · #3 12-29-2010, 04:21 PM

Greetings, Mr MTI.
The nature of the infraction Im charged with--this time, making a wide right turn. My defense will be the Necessity Defense.
The cop sits down the street from the cop shop at his speed trap-waithing for speeders to come around this slight bend in the 4 lane east west busy street--when they see him--its too late.
The street I turned off of enters this busy street (from the north) after the bend where ---I cannot see clearly oncoming traffic--and they cannot see me , and a potentially catestrophic situation could put me and every other driver there at risk of injury or even death.
i already checked the fire dept records--no accidents where an ambulance was called.
From the police dept records im requestin
* all DWI arrests made at that location going back 5 yrs
*all MVA accidents at that location going back 5 yrs ( in case there are fender benders / rear end collissions where ambulance was not called)
* all speeding tickets issued in that section block for 1-maybe 2 mos
* all traffic citations issued to me--( by the same officer) Yes my friends I am being targeted,--going back 2 yrs.

Jim B. · #4 12-29-2010, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by panZZer

Greetings, Mr MTI.
The nature of the infraction Im charged with--this time, making a wide right turn. My defense will be the Necessity Defense.
The cop sits down the street from the cop shop at his speed trap-waithing for speeders to come around this slight bend in the 4 lane east west busy street--when they see him--its too late.
The street I turned off of enters this busy street (from the north) after the bend where ---I cannot see clearly oncoming traffic--and they cannot see me , and a potentially catestrophic situation could put me and every other driver there at risk of injury or even death.
i already checked the fire dept records--no accidents where an ambulance was called.
From the police dept records im requestin
* all DWI arrests made at that location going back 5 yrs
*all MVA accidents at that location going back 5 yrs ( in case there are fender benders / rear end collissions where ambulance was not called)
* all speeding tickets issued in that section block for 1-maybe 2 mos
* all traffic citations issued to me--( by the same officer) Yes my friends I am being targeted,--going back 2 yrs.

You will need a lawyer if you are really smart.

If not I guess you can try the case acting as your own lawyer, but don't forget the legal maxim "only a fool has himself as his own lawyer"

Find out whether you CAN get a jury trial with a vehicular infraction for which you have been charged.

If the cop doesn't show up, ask the prosecutor to dismiss the case because the chief witness against you is not there.

Refuse to agree to a continuance, sudh as allowing the prosecutor a 2nd chaznce to get the non appearing cop to come to court, because he will,he gets paid his salary to be in court, anyway, and do not waive time (your right
to a speedy trial) for any reason.

Know the rules of hearsay and the exceptions, to the hearsay rule, starting with "dying declaration" and why the Police Report itself, if there is one , and the citation is inadmissable as evidence.

Know how to brief write and file a motion, do legal research, and "shephardise" legal citations.

Know the local rules of court, and service of process procedure for all your motions, the court filing fees, for each, and how to subpoena your witnesses,

And how to go about subpoenaing the citing police officer's personell
and disclipinary records, and what to do when the prosecutor files a motion to quash your subpoena, as he probably will,

How to deal with contniuous and multiplecourt appearances, over and over,

How to conduct jury voir dire, and jury selection, and select a jury, and prepare sample verdicts,

And how to use BAJI, to prepare, photocopy, argue and settle jury instructions,

And be prepared to be laughed at and and found guilty if you lack good knowledge of this and other things,

And be able to argue dramatically and convincingly to the jury, and just how far you can go without the DA continuously objecting to what you say on valid legal grounds and interruptng you every 5 seconds with valid legal objections, and making hash of your closing statement,

And know you AUTOMATICALLY start out with 2 strikes against you if you act as your own lawyer and seeming vainglorious to the Judge and Jury and wasting everyone's time,

And if you make a HUGE battle out of this, thel local police may in some cases, if they feel you insulted them (word does get around) every officer in town will enjoy the chance to harrass you, pull you over, and write you the "full boat" every time, and if you lip off (even an odd sidelong glance will suffice) to tase you, beat the crap out of YOU with his baton, and then charge YOU with resisting,

-

OR

If you do the above, at the very start preferably, have a "settlement conference" with the prosecutor to see if he will allow you to "Plea Bargain" to some lesser offense such as a "lesser and reasonably related" offense that is either a NON MOVING one of some kind, like truckers often can do, that will NOT hit your driving record if you are convicted, but come with a large fine and maybe some probation but no jail

OR

Say you are broke and demand a public defender, and if you are believed and filled out the forms to prove it, will get one MAYBE, and one who is competent, IF as stated above, they are allowed in an infraction (likely not), as this would totally gridlock the system if eveyone could get one,

OR

Just pay the fine and forfeit the bail you paid (in common parlance, the "fine")

and just suck it up and move on with your life.

And as to fighting the system, just admit it:

Skid Row Joe · #5 12-29-2010, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

You will need a lawyer if you are really smart.

If not I guess you can try the case acting as your own lawyer, but don't forget the legal maxim "only a fool has himself as his own lawyer"

Find out whether you CAN get a jury trial with a vehicular infraction for which you have been charged.

If the cop doesn't show up, ask the prosecutor to dismiss the case because the chief witness against you is not there.

Refuse to agree to a continuance, sudh as allowing the prosecutor a 2nd chaznce to get the non appearing cop to come to court, because he will,he gets paid his salary to be in court, anyway, and do not waive time (your right
to a speedy trial) for any reason.

Know the rules of hearsay and the exceptions, to the hearsay rule, starting with "dying declaration" and why the Police Report itself, if there is one , and the citation is admissable as evidence.

Know how to brief write and file a motion, do legal research, and "shephardise" legal citations.

Know the local rules of court, and service of process procedure for all your motions, the court filing fees, for each, and how to subpoena your witnesses,

And how to go about subpoenaing the citing police officer's personell
and disclipinary records, and what to do when the prosecutor files a motion to quas your subpoena, as he probably will,

How to deal with contniuous and multiplecourt appearances, over and over,

How to conduct jury voir dire, and jury selection, and select a jury, and prepare sample verdicts,

And how to use BAJI, to prepare, photocopy, argue and settle jury instructions,

And be prepared to be laughed and and found guilty if you lack good knowledge of this and other things,

And be able to argue dramatically and convincingly to the jury, and just how far you can go without the DA continuously objecting to what you say on valid legal grounds and interruptng you every 5 seconds with valid legal objections, and making has of your closing statement,

And know you AUTOMATICALLY start out with 2 strikes against you if you act as your own time and seeming vainglorious to the Judge and Jury and wasting everyones time,

And if you make a HUGE battle out of this, thel local police may in some cases, if they feel you insulted them (word does get around) every officer in town will enjoy the chance to harrass you, pull you over, and write you the "full boat" every time, and if you lip off (even an odd sidelong glance will suffice) to tase you, beat the crap out of YOU with his baton, and then charge YOU with resisting,

-

OR

If you do the above, at the very start preferably, have a "settlement conference" with the prosecutor to see if he will allow you to "Plea Bargain" to some lesser offense such as a "lesser and reasonably related" offense that is either a NON MOVING one of some kind, like truckers often can do, that will NOT hit your driving record if you are convicted, but come with a large fine and mayb some probation but no jail

OR

Say you are broke and demand a public defender, and if you are believed and filled out the forms to prove it, will get one MAYBE, and one who is competent, IF as stated above, they are allowed in an infraction (likely not), as this would totally gridlock the system if eveyone could get one,

OR

Just pay the fine and forfeit the bail you paid (in common parlance, the "fine")

and just suck it up and move on with your life.

And as to fighting the system, just admit it:

I can dig it!

I wanna see the courtroom action on this one!

Jim B. · #6 12-29-2010, 07:03 PM

A laff riot. And a expensive one too for the defendant.

Also,

"AFGE" <-----

HuskyMan · #7 12-29-2010, 07:30 PM

forget the notion of 'fairness', nothing about the system is fair. There are numerous ways to approach a traffic offense, best to get to studying and learn all you can. If you really are being targeted, best to pack your things and quietly move during the middle of the night to a very large metropolitan area. Ditch your old car and buy one that is a completely different year/make/model/color. It might sound drastic but if you really are being targeted it won't ever get better, only worse.

Pooka · #8 12-29-2010, 08:01 PM

I don't know if this will help, but...

Back in the 1980's I was in a hit and run. My car was hit pretty bad and the perp took off in what had been a really nice 1969 GTO.

Turns out the guy who hit me had been test driving the car and just took it back to the dealer and dropped it off. So I had help from the dealer tracking him down since the dealer wanted a piece of him, too.

It took a few weeks, but I found him and got the cops to issue him a ticket.

Now.... He has a ticket and he calls and asks me not to show up. I said I would be there if there were six feet of snow on the ground (it was winter).

When I got there there was no jury, just a Justice of the Peace who let the guy off since he had already talked to the Judge and promised to turn his life around. I guess he settled with the Dealer but I never found out.

I wanted a transcript and was told that traffic tickets were not dealt with in a 'Court of Record' so there was none.

Anyway... I would get a lawyer involved who will likely just let you be found guilty and then appeal it. if you live in a county with a lot of people in it the court will be overwhelmed with tickets being appealed and requests for a Jury trial. It will then be dismissed along with thousands of other tickets.

That's how it was done in Texas when I lived there, but that was quite a few years ago.

kip Foss · #9 12-29-2010, 08:05 PM

I can tell you that as a long time-67 years-resident of Texas you have probably broken 3 laws by making a wide right turn. Don't feel all alone I see this done every day and I have never seen a cop stop anyone for the violations.

The laws you broke are probably not signaling your right turn. Not signaling your lane change from the right lane to the left. And changing lanes within 100 feet of an intersection.

Skid Row Joe · #10 12-29-2010, 08:11 PM

Quote:

I can tell you that as a long time-67 years-resident of Texas you have probably broken 3 laws by making a wide right turn. Don't feel all alone I see this done every day and I have never seen a cop stop anyone for the violations.

The laws you broke are probably not signaling your right turn. Not signaling your lane change from the right lane to the left. And changing lanes within 100 feet of an intersection.

If you are being scoped out or followed for suspicion of DUI/DWI around here - you best not make a wide right turn, or a right turn immediately into the center or third lane. That's a no - no in Texas by law.

You better add - making that turn signal on for 100 feet before the turn as well. As well as stopping in a private business or lane/driveway, before turning on to a public street or highway too!

Now, on a left turn, by law any lane is good, to turn into, unless it is onto a one-way street, then you best get in the 1st lane immediately.

The County Sheriff's Deputys are crazed around here for infractions! Step out of line, the Man gets you and takes you away, you better stop, Lord watch that sign, everybody watch what's going on - you better stop, Lord watch that sign everybody watch what's going down.......

okyoureabeast · #11 12-29-2010, 08:50 PM

I'm sorry but what is a wide right turn? Did you turn a little to the left to give yourself more room to complete a right turn?

kip Foss · #12 12-29-2010, 08:57 PM

A wide right turn is when you turn right into a 4 lane street and instead of staying in the right lane you drift across into the left lane. This is invariable done when a car is coming so that the turning car blocks both the lanes and forces the oncoming car to slow down.

okyoureabeast · #13 12-29-2010, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kip Foss

A wide right turn is when you turn right into a 4 lane street and instead of staying in the right lane you drift across into the left lane. This is invariable done when a car is coming so that the turning car blocks both the lanes and forces the oncoming car to slow down.

AHHH! So that is why I failed my road test the first time.

I've done this before, but I hit my turn left while merging. I wonder if I'd still get a ticket. Either way I'll watch this.

Sounds like an oinker fishing for tickets.

panZZer · #14 12-29-2010, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim B.

You will need a lawyer if you are really smart.

If not I guess you can try the case acting as your own lawyer, but don't forget the legal maxim "only a fool has himself as his own lawyer"

Find out whether you CAN get a jury trial with a vehicular infraction for which you have been charged.

If the cop doesn't show up, ask the prosecutor to dismiss the case because the chief witness against you is not there.

Refuse to agree to a continuance, sudh as allowing the prosecutor a 2nd chaznce to get the non appearing cop to come to court, because he will,he gets paid his salary to be in court, anyway, and do not waive time (your right
to a speedy trial) for any reason.

Know the rules of hearsay and the exceptions, to the hearsay rule, starting with "dying declaration" and why the Police Report itself, if there is one , and the citation is inadmissable as evidence.

Know how to brief write and file a motion, do legal research, and "shephardise" legal citations.

Know the local rules of court, and service of process procedure for all your motions, the court filing fees, for each, and how to subpoena your witnesses,

And how to go about subpoenaing the citing police officer's personell
and disclipinary records, and what to do when the prosecutor files a motion to quash your subpoena, as he probably will,

How to deal with contniuous and multiplecourt appearances, over and over,

How to conduct jury voir dire, and jury selection, and select a jury, and prepare sample verdicts,

And how to use BAJI, to prepare, photocopy, argue and settle jury instructions,

And be prepared to be laughed at and and found guilty if you lack good knowledge of this and other things,

And be able to argue dramatically and convincingly to the jury, and just how far you can go without the DA continuously objecting to what you say on valid legal grounds and interruptng you every 5 seconds with valid legal objections, and making hash of your closing statement,

And know you AUTOMATICALLY start out with 2 strikes against you if you act as your own lawyer and seeming vainglorious to the Judge and Jury and wasting everyone's time,

And if you make a HUGE battle out of this, thel local police may in some cases, if they feel you insulted them (word does get around) every officer in town will enjoy the chance to harrass you, pull you over, and write you the "full boat" every time, and if you lip off (even an odd sidelong glance will suffice) to tase you, beat the crap out of YOU with his baton, and then charge YOU with resisting,

-

OR

If you do the above, at the very start preferably, have a "settlement conference" with the prosecutor to see if he will allow you to "Plea Bargain" to some lesser offense such as a "lesser and reasonably related" offense that is either a NON MOVING one of some kind, like truckers often can do, that will NOT hit your driving record if you are convicted, but come with a large fine and maybe some probation but no jail

OR

Say you are broke and demand a public defender, and if you are believed and filled out the forms to prove it, will get one MAYBE, and one who is competent, IF as stated above, they are allowed in an infraction (likely not), as this would totally gridlock the system if eveyone could get one,

OR

Just pay the fine and forfeit the bail you paid (in common parlance, the "fine")

and just suck it up and move on with your life.

And as to fighting the system, just admit it:

Ok Jim I just wrote a respons so long it blanked out whe I tried to send.
You dont have the right anymore in CA you did yrs ago.
Saying someone who still does is a fool for exercising it is ridiculous.
In Texas they are pretty straightforward some what like JP court.

I still expect to have a reasonably fair chance at getting some jurors who realize it not frivolous or a waste of Resorces. Because they need to know--Because of the way a few police here conduct themselves.

The courts of record cant be appealed to county level-There is no DA -Traffic offenses are classified as crimminal offenses-Thus everyone has this right here--Ill make sure they understand it in my opening and closing statements. bond is paid
At the pretrial hearing I did not know I had to speak for a fair and speedy trial to get it in Texas. I did myself no harm getting time to prepare ---I still know the jury will se it as an kife to a gun fight-but the jury is made up of 6 from my home town -even if it is made up of new people who dont know me.

I just have a few more question for the innards of the trial from someone in Texas who knows the courts here or about Illinois for instance wh still has the right.

panZZer · #15 12-30-2010, 05:10 PM

Optimism--I luvit. I'm also part of the reality club.

Today I got some records -There was a "compound" DWI/accident I have a record of where a drunk driver came around the curve-hit someone turning like I was and then fled-later arrested for the dwi.