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  #1  
Old 01-26-2011, 11:33 PM
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Hollywood/History

Today we see a misreading of history-unfortunately in many cases international- to try to enhance the image of Europe and those who came out of it like Vasco da Gama and Columbus. These people were depicted as discoverers, but actually they were Conquistadores-they were conquerers, who were part of the Catholic inquisition and the Catholic takeover of the world.

That was what they were looking for. They were people of war. They were not coming into these lands to have freindly relatioships. They came to take over. They would first come in peace and then they would attack by bringing ships with cannons. They would attack and conquer the coastline. And then they do their business:they try to go into the interior. This is how they set up the colonial system.

It is a misreading of history- and it is propaganda.

Unfortunately now, it has even reached Hollywood. And it is our biggest enemy right now in the 21st century. During my time it was the people of Vietnam (communists), or even before that time it was the Nazi's and the Japanese during world war 2. Then it was the Spanish/Colombian drug cartels, Chinese Triads.

Now the most dangerous terrorists you can bring to the screen would be Arab Muslims or Afghan terrorists. And then the hero's go into action: Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Bruce Willis- all these hero's are coming to save the world. All these are stereo-typing and propaganda. We are suffering from this now.

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  #2  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:11 AM
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  #3  
Old 01-27-2011, 01:43 AM
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In storytelling the more evil the bad guy is the greater the Hero is. It has been this way since the time of the Greeks and likely before.

A good example would be Star Wars. Is there a more evil and more powerful bad guy than Darth Vader? Is there a more unlikely hero than Luke?

If you are concerned about stereotyping then ask an American Indian to tell you about it.

But if an Arab is the bad guy in a story it has to be put into perspective. In the film 'The Lion of the Desert' the hero is also the bad guy depending on whose eyes you are seeing the story through. Another good example is 'The Battle for Algiers'. Who is the bad guy and who is the good one? The Frenchman or the Arab?

The bad guy can't just be bad like Vader, he has to be powerful like Vader. Otherwise any wimp could knock him off and the hero would not have to do anything heroic and thus you would have no story.

Hollywood has a name for evil doers like some we are seeing today in action films and that word is 'cartooney'. Over the top is another way to describe these types of bad guys. Auds can look at them and know they are not real; it is entertainment.

Nothing more.
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Old 01-27-2011, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
In storytelling the more evil the bad guy is the greater the Hero is. It has been this way since the time of the Greeks and likely before.

A good example would be Star Wars. Is there a more evil and more powerful bad guy than Darth Vader? Is there a more unlikely hero than Luke?

If you are concerned about stereotyping then ask an American Indian to tell you about it.

But if an Arab is the bad guy in a story it has to be put into perspective. In the film 'The Lion of the Desert' the hero is also the bad guy depending on whose eyes you are seeing the story through. Another good example is 'The Battle for Algiers'. Who is the bad guy and who is the good one? The Frenchman or the Arab?

The bad guy can't just be bad like Vader, he has to be powerful like Vader. Otherwise any wimp could knock him off and the hero would not have to do anything heroic and thus you would have no story.

Hollywood has a name for evil doers like some we are seeing today in action films and that word is 'cartooney'. Over the top is another way to describe these types of bad guys. Auds can look at them and know they are not real; it is entertainment.

Nothing more.
I have viewed both of the films you mention, and agree they are good examples that bring the audiance to a 'cross-roads' , so to speak.
Funny...during my first years in public school, the class was asked to paint a picture depicting our interpretation of a book read to us about 'cowboys-n-indians'. My picture showed an Indian scalping a soldier. My mother was called to the school-because the teacher was concerned about this. ( I suppose she had never seen a pic like that one)

It wasnt until later in my lfe that I discovered That I am part Native American, on my fathers side.
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
Today we see a misreading of history-unfortunately in many cases international- to try to enhance the image of Europe and those who came out of it like Vasco da Gama and Columbus. These people were depicted as discoverers, but actually they were Conquistadores-they were conquerers, who were part of the Catholic inquisition and the Catholic takeover of the world.

That was what they were looking for. They were people of war. They were not coming into these lands to have freindly relatioships. They came to take over. They would first come in peace and then they would attack by bringing ships with cannons. They would attack and conquer the coastline. And then they do their business:they try to go into the interior. This is how they set up the colonial system.

It is a misreading of history- and it is propaganda.

Unfortunately now, it has even reached Hollywood. And it is our biggest enemy right now in the 21st century. During my time it was the people of Vietnam (communists), or even before that time it was the Nazi's and the Japanese during world war 2. Then it was the Spanish/Colombian drug cartels, Chinese Triads.

Now the most dangerous terrorists you can bring to the screen would be Arab Muslims or Afghan terrorists. And then the hero's go into action: Chuck Norris, Steven Seagal, Bruce Willis- all these hero's are coming to save the world. All these are stereo-typing and propaganda. We are suffering from this now.
History is written by the winners/conquers. The Spanish/Conquistadores accounts have you believe that their band of 100 men strode into these countires and due to their geat heroism, the masses laid down. Actaully, they lucked into some cicil wars. Their advanced technology, for the time tipped the balance of power. Sort of like if you had tanks in the (US) Civil War.
I do agree that Hollywood glosses or dresses up a lot of historical movies. Pearl Harbor was a bit to flashy for me. There were some historical events that were portrayed. Two fighters did get off the ground that day.
To some extent it would be hard to convey the intracies of history in a 2 hour film. Also, Islam and the East did a lot of conquering. They weren't nice about it either.
Tom
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Old 01-27-2011, 08:56 AM
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Note to anyone who is paying attention.

Hollywood produces entertainment; not history.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:10 AM
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There are Americans that need to learn the difference between reality and movies as well. That problems are solved in abnormally short times; that an armed public will prevent crime . . .
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:49 AM
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Hollywood is one of the most accomplished tools to the illusionary creation with which America has outdone any other nation on the planet.

The accomplishment is, to make illusion look like reality.

It's essential to America's state of existence.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Note to anyone who is paying attention.

Hollywood produces entertainment; not history.
Correct. But American individuals still believe in Hollwood more than in any other institution.
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Old 01-27-2011, 10:54 AM
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There are Americans that need to learn the difference between reality and movies as well. That problems are solved in abnormally short times; that an armed public will prevent crime . . .
Americans need to learn? Schock, Schwere, Not!
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  #11  
Old 01-27-2011, 02:03 PM
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In Hollywoodland it also helps if you have a character that needs little introduction. It speeds up the film and cuts the cost of production.

At the opening of Star Wars we see a small ship under attack and then overpowered. Vader enters and we know he is different and then we quickly learn that he is both evil and powerful. He is also indestructable since he can disarm you with a wave of his hand.

Vader was set-up quickly as the evil to be overcome. It is the same with stereotypes. If you think you already know the bad guy it saves time and money for the film production company and both are very important to the film world.

I don't know anyone in the film biz that is really worried about being all that PC, but at least there is a trend to historical accuracy.

But this only exists because the auds demand it. A good example of this is the film 'True Grit'. The early one depended a lot on John Wayne to be entertaining and a lot of liberties were taken with the story and the historical details. The one out now is much closer to the story and is as historical as a film can be given the fact that the Old West no longer exists to check it against.

A film in which a Mulsim is cast in a very positive role is 'Saraha' which stars Humphry Bogart. This is very likely available on NetFlixs and if you have not seen it then you should. There was a remake of this with Jim Bulishi which is OK, but I thought the Bogart one was better.
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:27 PM
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I see an interesting parallelism between the Catholic theocratic imperialism and today's spread of Islam. Both came/come in peace: then.......

scary times: not end times, but times of change and danger
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Old 01-27-2011, 02:32 PM
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That just reminded me . . . I heard the live version of "Conquistador" by the Procol Harem on fm radio the other day . . . what a blast from the past.
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  #14  
Old 01-27-2011, 02:41 PM
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The actor in the film 'Saraha' that plays the Muslim was Rex Ingram.

He also played 'Da Lawd' in 'The Green Pastures' and the Devil in another film that I have forgotten the name of.

Not many actors can make that claim!
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  #15  
Old 01-27-2011, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by LaRondo View Post
Correct. But American individuals still believe in Hollwood more than in any other institution.
How utterly sad.

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