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  #1  
Old 02-10-2011, 02:57 AM
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George Will nails it again: Egypt, USA, Israel

http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/egypt-287527-america-egyptian.html

WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2011

Sixty years ago, American politics was embittered by an accusation couched as a question: "Who lost China?" The implied indictment was that America had fumbled away a possession through incompetence or sinister conniving.

In 1949, when communists came to power there, America bestrode both hemispheres shattered from war. Americans thought their nation was at the wheel of the world and that whatever happened, wherever, happened at America's instigation, or at least its sufferance, or was evidence of American negligence.

It is a sign of national maturity – the product of hard learning, from Korea and Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan – that fewer American complainers are today faulting the Obama administration for not anticipating and shaping events in Egypt. Israel, which lives next door to Egypt and has an excellent intelligence service, did not see this coming.


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Last edited by cmac2012; 02-10-2011 at 03:09 AM.
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:15 AM
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I was suprised to see Wills, stick up for Obama. I do agree that certian points in history come out of nowhere. They reach a flash point. Thebn boom. I do think we have seen this happening over the past few years. Actaully, we have seen it in our own election process. Mainly, the growth of the internet, twitter, facebook etc. There was a news piece about this over the weekend. I am surprise Al Gore didn't predicts this.
Tom
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Old 02-10-2011, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/egypt-287527-america-egyptian.html

WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2011

Sixty years ago, American politics was embittered by an accusation couched as a question: "Who lost China?" The implied indictment was that America had fumbled away a possession through incompetence or sinister conniving.

In 1949, when communists came to power there, America bestrode both hemispheres shattered from war. Americans thought their nation was at the wheel of the world and that whatever happened, wherever, happened at America's instigation, or at least its sufferance, or was evidence of American negligence.

It is a sign of national maturity – the product of hard learning, from Korea and Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan – that fewer American complainers are today faulting the Obama administration for not anticipating and shaping events in Egypt. Israel, which lives next door to Egypt and has an excellent intelligence service, did not see this coming.
Egyptian Tea Party?
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:42 PM
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I think Will comes down on the side of good sense ahead of stubborn partisanry. I've been a little dismayed at all the calls for O to distance himself from the Muslim Brotherhood. Like that's going to make a difference. I'm sure those guys would love to have the POTUS bad mouthing them.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:02 PM
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I think Will comes down on the side of good sense ahead of stubborn partisanry. I've been a little dismayed at all the calls for O to distance himself from the Muslim Brotherhood. Like that's going to make a difference. I'm sure those guys would love to have the POTUS bad mouthing them.
That's exactly right. It would be a badge of distinction for them among their peers.

This is exactly analogous to the Beck/Limbaugh phenomenon. Both of them LOVE for the Obama administration to make faces at them - it makes their supporters cheer and listen to them with even greater ardent enthusiasm. But the liberals don't get it: They continue to award free advertising and inhanced street cred to both.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:04 AM
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^ ^ I will agree that it's a tactical error for him to mention them. Not sure that I should refrain from referencing them, as they have a wide audience that will not be swayed by me either way.
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:46 AM
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That's exactly right. It would be a badge of distinction for them among their peers.

This is exactly analogous to the Beck/Limbaugh phenomenon. Both of them LOVE for the Obama administration to make faces at them - it makes their supporters cheer and listen to them with even greater ardent enthusiasm. But the liberals don't get it: They continue to award free advertising and inhanced street cred to both.
Even the White House doesn't know not to feed the trolls?
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:42 AM
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It would be nice if Beck and Limbaugh (honorable mention to Hannity and Laura Ingraham) were merely trolls but they have a sizable mouthpiece and much Booo-$h!t emanates from those orifices. It's some serious propaganda and the temptation to ***** slap those fools has to be large.

Back to the OP, another paragraph from that piece is vintage Will:

. . . there is a cottage industry of Barack Obama critics who, not content with monitoring his myriad mistakes in domestic policies, insist that there must be a seamless connection of those with his foreign policy. Strangely, these critics, who correctly doubt the propriety and capacity of the U.S. government controlling our complex society, simultaneously fault the government for not having vast competence to shape the destinies of other societies. Such critics persist because, as Upton Sinclair wrote in 1935, "It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it."
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Old 02-11-2011, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by cmac2012 View Post
http://www.ocregister.com/opinion/egypt-287527-america-egyptian.html

WASHINGTON, Feb. 8, 2011

Sixty years ago, American politics was embittered by an accusation couched as a question: "Who lost China?" The implied indictment was that America had fumbled away a possession through incompetence or sinister conniving.

In 1949, when communists came to power there, America bestrode both hemispheres shattered from war. Americans thought their nation was at the wheel of the world and that whatever happened, wherever, happened at America's instigation, or at least its sufferance, or was evidence of American negligence.

It is a sign of national maturity – the product of hard learning, from Korea and Vietnam to Iraq and Afghanistan – that fewer American complainers are today faulting the Obama administration for not anticipating and shaping events in Egypt. Israel, which lives next door to Egypt and has an excellent intelligence service, did not see this coming.
The professional analysts have been predicting this for three years, based on economics, demographics etc. The only surprise was the guy who immolated himself in Tunisia and started it. Many thought probably the assassination of a rival party leader by the local gubmint or the banning of a popularist political party would start it. That's what started the problems in Algeria with the GSPC
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Old 02-11-2011, 08:35 AM
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^^ True.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:08 AM
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^^ True.
I do think Gaza caused a shift in that thinking. Still, the problems in Gaza were and still are simular to Egypt and others. Basically, a corrupt and centralized government. You could also add Iran to that list.
The concerns of Egypt or others being coopeted from democracy is well founded. I wish then well and hope they suceed. There are to many examples, from China, Russia, Vietnam, Cuba and Iran. The age of twitter might mitigate this. I think at a point the protesters might push a bit to far. If it cripples Egypts econimy, then a radical element might and probably will have a stronger foot hold.

Tom
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:05 AM
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Mubarac supporters are surely doing financially well under his reign .The rioters in the streets are the ones with few means to make the day to day living possible. Simple struggle of rich and poor.If you would imagine yourself under rule of someone who dictates your existence and how you have no say in what happens in that existence,then you can start to understand their plight.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:08 AM
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Mubarac supporters are surely doing financially well under his reign .The rioters in the streets are the ones with few means to make the day to day living possible. Simple struggle of rich and poor.If you would imagine yourself under rule of someone who dictates your existence and how you have no say in what happens in that existence,then you can start to understand their plight.
Egypts vp reports to crowd..."Murabak WILL step down" !!

Victory..at last.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chasinthesun View Post
Mubarac supporters are surely doing financially well under his reign .The rioters in the streets are the ones with few means to make the day to day living possible. Simple struggle of rich and poor.If you would imagine yourself under rule of someone who dictates your existence and how you have no say in what happens in that existence,then you can start to understand their plight.
From what I've read, many mundane activities require a bribe to this or that minor bureaucrat, cop, whatever. That would have to get old. My only experience with that was brief - in Mazatlan, MX in the late 70s. Three well dressed punks with official looking IDs shook me and my buddy down, just generally lording it over us, taking some of our cigarettes and $$.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:58 PM
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From what I've read, many mundane activities require a bribe to this or that minor bureaucrat, cop, whatever. That would have to get old. My only experience with that was brief - in Mazatlan, MX in the late 70s. Three well dressed punks with official looking IDs shook me and my buddy down, just generally lording it over us, taking some of our cigarettes and $$.
I've heard things have gotten much worse in Mexico. I hear even the police have gotten into the act.
Tom

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