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  #1  
Old 02-23-2011, 12:36 PM
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Democracy: An offense to liberty

You just have to love Walter Williams...Wish I had gone to George Mason Univ.

The word "democracy" appears nowhere in the two most fundamental documents of our nation – the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution. Our Constitution's Article IV, Section 4, guarantees "to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government." If you don't want to bother reading our founding documents, just ask yourself: Does our pledge of allegiance to the flag say to "the democracy for which it stands," or to "the republic for which it stands"? Or, did Julia Ward Howe make a mistake in titling her Civil War song "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"? Should she have titled it "The Battle Hymn of the Democracy"?

What's the difference between republican and democratic forms of government? John Adams captured the essence when he said, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." That means Congress does not grant us rights; their job is to protect our natural or God-given rights.


Read more: Democracy: An offense to liberty http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=266885#ixzz1EnwDFJkG

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  #2  
Old 02-23-2011, 01:34 PM
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It's all just word games. You and World Nut Daily can call it a Republic, I call it a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffersonian_democracy

or better yet a

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Representative_democracy
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  #3  
Old 02-23-2011, 01:46 PM
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Just to show you what a low-life website WND.com is, I did this little Google adventure that took about five minutes to expose them for the liars they are. First we see this headline:

FBI: Muslim Brotherhood deeply rooted inside U.S.

and then this article, which claims the "FBI" is saying this drivel:

http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=266725

It justifies this claim that the "FBI" said something, by attributing the info in this way:

Quote:
The most prominent Islamic organizations in the United States are all controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood," said FBI veteran John Guandolo, who worked several Brotherhood-related terror cases out of the bureau's Washington field office as a special agent after 9/11.
So we Google the supposed FBI agent's name, and in minute, find information that exposes the entire article as a fraud, and this supposed "FBI spokesman" as a man they ran off the reservation for being a crook:


The man resigned from the FBI almost two years ago, because he's a flaked out nut. The WND article is, well, it's a big fat lie. You can do this all day long with World Nut Daily stuff, they have no integrity, they are fundementally dishonest. The real truth is, the FBI never said any such thing, some nut who used to work for them did, and not only that, he is a nut who resigned from the FBI in disgrace. Garbage. How do you explain that obvious fundementally dishonest web page, TX?

Last edited by JollyRoger; 02-23-2011 at 01:59 PM.
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Old 02-23-2011, 01:57 PM
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In this one, a breathless WND claims that
Tennessee joins states looking to yank fed reins



and yet, when we actually read the article, it turns out that the State of Tennessee has done nothing of the sort, it is some nut state leg guy who's introduced some nutty bill that is utterly ridiculous, and probably has no chance of passing. WND's headline is false. The State of Tennessee has taken no official action. The mental capacity of their readers is really called into question when you see stuff like that.
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  #5  
Old 02-23-2011, 02:03 PM
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Oh, and Williams? He's a traitor:

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=28529
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2011, 02:10 PM
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LMAO
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  #7  
Old 02-23-2011, 02:11 PM
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At the obvious lies? Now that we know the quality of your source of information, I'm afraid the laugh's on you. Perhaps when you are done laughing, you could explain to us how a fired FBI agent is "the FBI", and how "Tennesse joining other states" is truthful, when it is such an obvious lie? And Williams, the Secessonist. What a fine person to tell us all how our country works, a friggin traitor. Posting World Nut Daily drivel, I pity you.
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  #8  
Old 02-23-2011, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
At the obvious lies? Now that we know the quality of your source of information, I'm afraid the laugh's on you. Perhaps when you are done laughing, you could explain to us how a fired FBI agent is "the FBI", and how "Tennesse joining other states" is truthful, when it is such an obvious lie? And Williams, the Secessonist. What a fine person to tell us all how our country works, a friggin traitor.
I didnt read those other stories, not going to. Williams, in his essay, made a point of how such an act could occur, he did not advocate it. Big difference. States do have the right to secede if the population wishes. He's no traitor, merely talking about a point well known by anyone familiar with writings on the American government.....
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Old 02-23-2011, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
You just have to love Walter Williams...Wish I had gone to George Mason Univ.
I was one of his students.

I hate to say I remember little from the class. But I do remember appreciating the way he required any guy with a baseball hat on to remove it when in his classroom. He demanded proper respect and got it.

A few years later I remember him leading the fight against then Governor Allen when Disney wanted to convert some of the Civil War land to a theme park. I sided with Williams.
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  #10  
Old 02-23-2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
States do have the right to secede if the population wishes.
No, they don't. I'm not familiar with this Williams fellow, but I'd say if he favors secession, his statements are traitorous.

look up Texas vs. White. This is from wikipedia, but there are better reports of the case online. Secession is NOT a right of the states. The confederate states were treasonous.

Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869. The case involved a claim by the Reconstruction government of Texas that United States bonds owned by Texas since 1850 had been illegally sold by the Confederate state legislature during the American Civil War. The state filed suit directly with the United States Supreme Court, which, under the United States Constitution, retains original jurisdiction on cases in which a state is a party.
In accepting jurisdiction, the court ruled that Texas had remained a state ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this. Tejas is one state we'd be well off without.
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  #11  
Old 02-23-2011, 04:59 PM
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WND: "We make stuff up, you believe it."
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  #12  
Old 02-23-2011, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Txjake View Post
I didnt read those other stories, not going to. Williams, in his essay, made a point of how such an act could occur, he did not advocate it. Big difference. States do have the right to secede if the population wishes. He's no traitor, merely talking about a point well known by anyone familiar with writings on the American government.....
Perhaps you can point out where it says that in the Constitution? I bet you will be about as successful as Jefferson Davis was. You may be in denial over this little thing called "The Civil War"......
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Old 02-23-2011, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by elchivito View Post
No, they don't. I'm not familiar with this Williams fellow, but I'd say if he favors secession, his statements are traitorous.

look up Texas vs. White. This is from wikipedia, but there are better reports of the case online. Secession is NOT a right of the states. The confederate states were treasonous.

Texas v. White, 74 U.S. 700 (1869) was a significant case argued before the United States Supreme Court in 1869. The case involved a claim by the Reconstruction government of Texas that United States bonds owned by Texas since 1850 had been illegally sold by the Confederate state legislature during the American Civil War. The state filed suit directly with the United States Supreme Court, which, under the United States Constitution, retains original jurisdiction on cases in which a state is a party.
In accepting jurisdiction, the court ruled that Texas had remained a state ever since it first joined the Union, despite its joining the Confederate States of America and its being under military rule at the time of the decision in the case. In deciding the merits of the bond issue, the court further held that the Constitution did not permit states to secede from the United States, and that the ordinances of secession, and all the acts of the legislatures within seceding states intended to give effect to such ordinances, were "absolutely null".

I'm not saying I necessarily agree with this. Tejas is one state we'd be well off without.
The Articles of Confederation, the document that first founded the United States, says that the states join in "perpetual union". The COTUS, which supercedes it, states it's purpose is to make that same union "more perfect". The intent of The Founders is clear: they provided many ways to enter the Union, but no way in law for them to get out. The only legal way for a state to secede is thru constitutional amendment, which requires the consent of 3/4's of the states.
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Old 02-23-2011, 09:07 PM
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The issue was undecided until 1865. In that year it was decided in blood. There is no secession by the will of a state.

OTOH, if the majority of Congress and legislatures of the states called a constitutional convention, the convention could dissolve the constitution and union.
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  #15  
Old 02-23-2011, 11:50 PM
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What's the difference between republican and democratic forms of government? John Adams captured the essence when he said, "You have rights antecedent to all earthly governments; rights that cannot be repealed or restrained by human laws; rights derived from the Great Legislator of the Universe." That means Congress does not grant us rights; their job is to protect our natural or God-given rights.
And? This is pretty much Constitutional Law 101 – what’s the big deal? I wouldn’t go so far as to say that democracy is an ‘offense’ to liberty but the doctrine of the rule of law has always been clear: one’s Constitutional rights are not subject to majority rule. See West Virginia Board of Education vs. Barnette. (1943). Otherwise that stuff about states having the right to secede is idiocy.

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