Hi all,

I just returned from a trip to the US so can we talk about US cars? I'd love to hear your experiences and perceptions. Because I spent 1 day driving and insisted upon a Lincoln Town car as a rental. It was unique for me as most cars in the UK have a sub 2.0 capacity engine, and are designed for smaller twistier roads. So the Town Car surprised me when I drove it. I loved it despite the differences compared to the smaller European cars I drive at home

I found the numbered space where my black "Signature Limited" with 4,000 miles would be found and my first impression was of size. Actually it wasn't my impression at all but my girlfriend's, I think she swore when we approached our numbered parking bay to see the rear end sticking 2 feet clear of every other car nearby. Inside was a pleasing leather smell that reminded me of a premium car with interior quality that was much better than expected. A good start and a surprise. However here I had my first disappointment, as it struck me the equipment levels were low. I expected many toys and gadgets on this car but just had electric seats, automatic lights and a good CD player. It doesn't seem like it's designed for drivers. Shortly though the boot (trunk) would impress me again with its space and powered lid. Meanwhile my girlfriend would casually mention that you could fit a body in the boot. I didn't point out that it probably had been done.

The TC's size was a concern for all of 15 seconds and afterwards it actually felt compact and very easy to drive. Just as I imagined, but one thing wasn't as I had hoped. The V8 engine - a very exotic item if you're from the Uk - unfortunately idled with a diesel sound, perhaps a noise in the valvetrain. And I couldn't help noticing a vibration too. When accelerating, it couldn't pull as hard as I hoped. It had a good sound and some pull but never pulled quite how I hoped, mostly the problem was the transmission which took forever to reach a higher RPM. I thought it must be a 3-speed. The long gearing must have helped the economy though - 19 US MPG average was a surprise.

The 'body on frame' design and soft suspension feel unique. Firstly the ride on very bad roads has a nice detached quality. It's soft and coupled with surprisingly low noise make the car an easy cruiser if a little dull. However on the highway, large bumps made the car shudder in an unusual way. I really think this is a lack of stiffness. The cornering was better than I imagined feeling comfortable, stable and safe and changing lanes quickly was fine. I imagined being a cop in his Crown Victoria chasing someone, and it wasn't so bad, however I suspect after 100,000 miles and a few years of wear, the handling would cross the line into poor, or even scary. I don't think I'd enjoy cornering in an older model Town Car with high miles and cheap tyres on it.

I was really excited to try this US classic and really loved it. I enjoy reminiscing about it and it's opened a new world to these US classics. I'd like to hear about others..

Has anyone owned a similar traditional US car and have any stories to tell? I'm all ears. what's boring to you is probably fascinating to me because we don't have these cars where I come from. The TV doesn't give you a feel for what they are like to own/drive so we are actually in the dark. These cars are non-existent over here due to gas prices.

What are '70s and '80s town cars/cadillacs/etc really like? I can imagine them being poor handling and very slow ?
Is the fuel economy I achieved (19 average) good or normal for this type of car?
Is a town car reliable? What other advantages does this car have compared to more modern cars?
Are and sporty US sedans built in this body on frame way and do they feel the same to drive? What do you guys think of them compared to European cars like Mercedes?

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190E's:
2.5-16v 1990 90,000m Astral Silver
2.0E 8v 1986 107,000m Black 2nd owner
http://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall.jpghttp://www.maylane.demon.co.uk/190esmall2.jpg

The towncar/crownvic are the last body on frame sedans even in the US. They haven't redesigned the panther platform since the late 70s. I'm pretty sure the town car is toast after this year. It won't be missed.

Rental car olympics anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQqQ-Kcjowg
The towncar hit 63mph in reverse.

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CENSORED due to not family friendly words

what kills this car is the resale. Oh and the looks!

Ah yes what routes did you end up taking?
http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=295335


Those town cars have evolved into machines for carting people around cities like Manhattan and not much else. The size didn't seem like a factor because the roads in the U.S are very wide. Take that car to Europe and it will feel gigantic. Also i'm not sure what year you had but that V8 only develops 240 HP which for a V8 isn't exactly class leading. Smaller 4 and 6 cylinder European engines have higher outputs then that V8.

As a comparison a U.S Spec 560SEL V8 developed that much power 20 years ago and the Euro versions were already at 300 hp. Today an S550 makes damn near 400hp

So overall you called it, not a drivers car.


As for the older American cars, well......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjzpx_jUUA0

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1982 300GD Carmine Red (DB3535) Cabriolet Parting Out
1990 300SEL Smoke Silver (Parting out)
1991 350SDL Blackberry Metallic (481)

"The thing is Bob, its not that I'm lazy...its that I just don't care."

I have a 1979 Ford Thunderbird with 63,000 original miles that basically shares the same frame as the Lincoln of it's era. It's a land yacht, to say the least. It's fast on the highway, cruises quite nicely, but leaves you feeling a bit wobbly legged after driving winding country roads due to the body sway.

I also own a 1992 Lincoln MK VII Bill Blass edition. It now has 199,700 miles on it and drives wonderful. It has plenty of power and can attain highway speeds fairly quickly...bear in mind, it shares the same engine as the Mustang GT of it's era. The transmission lacks the kick in the pants feel that I was hoping for. It doesn't shift as hard as I'd like, but with a few minor, inexpensive modifications, it can.

My brother owns a 1999 Lincoln Town Car. I've had the pleasure of driving it from Ohio to Florida and back, a few years ago. The car has all the bells and whistles you would imagine a Lincoln to have...seat position memory, heated seats, sunroof, etc. i've driven it on some of Kentucky's and Tennesee's worst roads, as I-75 had major construction going on in many areas. That car didn't jolt me or the passengers at all during the trip, and we hit some major potholes.

I used to own a 1989 Crown Vic interceptor package (former police car) that was a detective's car, so it wasn't killed during service. After replacing the shocks and tires, that car showed that it had balls!! it would put you in the back seat on launch and leave your head spinning. What a blast that car was, and it was also great in the corners.

I'm willing to bet that the model TC you rented wasn't fully loaded with all options...that would be very expensive for a rental place to own/repair.

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1987 560SL
85,000 miles

Pento, your review is spot on. Town cars are pretty much passenger cars, not so much a driver's car. They are incredibly floaty on the highway, steering is insulated to the max and IMO it is also underpowered, sort of like driving a sofa. Honestly all of the big American luxury cars I've been in feel pretty similar back through the 80s.

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TC
Current stable:
- 2004 Mazda RALLYWANKEL
- 2007 Saturn sky redline
- 2004 Explorer...under surgery.

Past: 135i, GTI, 300E, 300SD, 300SD, Stealth

I can't speak for Towns from the 70's but the 72 Cadillac Sedan DeVille I owned for three months while I was here in 93 as a tourist was one of the best cars I've ever had. I was here March thru May 93 and bought one for 1200 bucks in a dirt lot in a shady part of Phoenix. I used it to travel to the Grand Canyon several times, Sedona, up thru US 89A, one of the most twisty mountain roads in these parts, Phoenix to LA, LA to Yosemite, Kings Canyon/Sequoia, Back to the Grand Canyon, and back to Phoenix.

The 472 cubic inch V8, 7.2 liters I believe? moved the vehicle with authority and it was a pleasure to drive both in town and on the highway. The car was huge with a very long wheelbase, wide track and low center of gravity that it simply felt glued to the road at any speed. It would have taken a real idiot to upset that car. Now the contemporary S-Class (which I also owned) is a superior vehicle - but not by much.

I will say that I also drove an 06 Town car when my brother and fiance visited and we went up the the Canyon in it. I was not particularly impressed. It was comfortable and in fairness to the car this one had probably been buggered around by previous renters such that it seemed to pull quite a bit to the left and there was a noticeable wheel balancing vibration which detracted from the experience. I was not however impressed by the engine which seemed to lack guts when attempting to pass vehicles on the highway at speed. Something I distinctly remember having no trouble with at all in my 72 Caddy.

In my opinion Detroit fell off a cliff after 72 and have taken decades to climb back up again.

I ended up selling that Caddy to a school teacher for a couple of hundred bucks when I went home and I found out after emigrating to the US that she'd used it as her primary means of transporation for the next eight years with minimal problems or maintenance.

I liked that car so much that I plan to acquire another one some day when I have cash to spare.

- Peter.

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2021 Chevrolet Spark
Formerly...
2000 GMC Sonoma
1981 240D 4spd stick. 347000 miles. Deceased Feb 14 2021
2002 Kia Rio. Worst crap on four wheels
1981 240D 4spd stick. 389000 miles.
1984 123 200
1979 116 280S
1972 Cadillac Sedan DeVille
1971 108 280S

Yes, however it depends on the year model the sporty US sedan was built. They are what they are in their ride. Drive any of 'em - and likely there's just not a lot of standout difference from the ocean-liner feeling of your Lincoln.

I owned 2 Cadillacs and 1 Lincoln Town Car in the 1970s. I paid cash for each of them, so, yes I owned them! You may not get just a lot of praise from many of us who owned them BOTH earlier in our lives.

Unfortunately, my negative, costly financial experiences with those cars cured me from ever buying another one in my lifetime. That was 32 years ago and more!

I used them to earn a living - so they were not play toys to me. They contributed heavily (in a negative way,) toward my personal business's expense each year. That said, I have no love lost for how the American brands burned me and my wallet in the '70s and '80s with their poor fuel mileage and outrageously dismal and costly reliabilty.

Would I ever own one again? NEVER!

Nonetheless, I enjoyed reading your assessments of the Lincoln! Some comments of it were spot on comical! You are indeed a gifted writer to boot!

A Ford is a Ford is a Ford. A Mercedes Benz is a Mercedes Benz is a Mercedes Benz. It's the little things that separates a Benz from all others; sometimes it's things that can't be seen or felt until an emergency driving situation presents itself. Then, the Nordic Gods who engineered these marvelous machines go to work to show you how a car is supposed to handle, brake or even crash.

Right on HuskyMan!

It is hard not to dis any American brand, once you've owned a Mercedes-Benz for 20+ years. I'm a reformed American (yuk!) brands owner to Mercedes cars for life! I luv 'em! lol

My family has owned one or MORE Mercedes-Benz diesels for going on 50 consecutive years! That is a strong statement coming from me!

Right on, right on!

They are pretty much just used as limo's around the city and rental cars, that's about it. No one buys them anymore and I think this year was the last year of production for the panther platform.

The plus side is they are quite robust, and the 4.6 while not putting out a great amount of power will run just about forever. Taxi companies put 100k a year on them without much trouble.

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1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200

You had a Lincoln in rental car spec, thus the lack of interior frippery.

That ain't no normal murrican auto. Make him drive a K-car. That'll put the whinny furriner's tail between its legs.

Contrary to the response from our in-house vintage Lincoln/Cadillac expert, (even after his multiple edits) most sporty modern U.S. sedans are NOT body-on-frame, but are unit-body...

I'm also trying to fathom the wisdom of swearing off a brand or brands of an automobile due to some dissatisfaction with a brand several decades ago. It's akin to swearing off Mercedes because they built some models with a swing-arm rear suspension 50-60 years ago.

You can't beat these big domestics if you are entering the local demolition derby.