heat pump went out, 15 years old - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

lutzTD · #1 04-15-2011, 08:01 AM

I know there is another recent thread but it ended with fixing the old one and I didnt want to hijack his thread. My heat pump went south yesterday. Its not too hot here yet so I have time to consider the options. My heat pump is 15 years old. I was told 4 years ago it wouldnt last through the next winter. With a few charges and a lot of 2am trips outside to hit the reset button I made it last. Yesterday it got spiked and completely shut down the outside unit. There is still power there but nothing is working. I am assuming the spike broke its last leg. I am a little on the fence whether to pay for a quick look to see if it can be resurected for a little longer is in order or just junk it and get a new more efficient one. Mines a SEER12.

I just had it charged about a month ago, but I dont trust the guy who did it, he spent way too much time telling me it was junk and the new stuff he could sell me.

I have some guys coming to give estimates on a new system, what should I look for? Any brands stand out as really bad or really good. I talked to a couple guys and they said there are 40 or so brands but reallu only 6 makers, they all basically use the same parts and repackage them. I assume that even though they use the same brand compressor its not necissarily the same quality compressor so I will need to wade through that bull. Any suggestions appreciated

mbdoc · #2 04-15-2011, 08:18 AM

Nothing stops a TRANE...installed a 15.9SEER dual fuel unit about 6 years ago.
Go with a variable blower motor system as well!

Saves about 40% on energy usage.

catmandoo62 · #3 04-15-2011, 08:32 AM

don't know about down there but up here my power company gives rebates to update BUT it must be 16 SEER or higher.mine is right at 21 yrs old and been letting out the death screams for the last 3 months so i think i'm gonna change it this summer.i will say this about lennox they are very proud of their parts.my buddies dad was a carrier dealer and he hated working on lennox because they would not give him any better prices on parts and in most cases had to order them.

Dee8go · #4 04-15-2011, 10:26 AM

I guess heat pumps are fine in Florida. Up here in Virginia, they suck. During the Winter there's not enough heat in the air for them to warm anything. I'll never have another house with a heat pump in it.

PaulC · #5 04-15-2011, 10:29 AM

Can you also get a line conditioner or surge protector to keep another spike from damaging the new unit?

gmercoleza · #6 04-15-2011, 11:59 AM

Sounds familiar. 3 years ago my heat pump went out. The condenser had a hole in it (verified with my sniffer). I considered repairing the hole, but it was in a difficult location, and honestly the unit was 10 years old and had other issues (like insulation coming apart inside the air handler). Got several quotes in the neighborhood of 6500 to 7500 for R22 14 seer 5 tons. Bought a set on eBay and put it in myself. $1900. My electric bills dropped nicely with the newer, more efficient unit.

I know there are HVAC experts on this board, so I tread lightly. But HVAC units are very much like computers in my opinion. Different chassis, different cases and paint, different marketing and price levels (Trane is somewhat perceived as a "luxury" brand), but inside they are all fundamentally the same. They all have a condenser, compressor, switches, a squirrel cage fan, an evap, and electronic control boards. As long as you get one with good quality parts (Copeland scroll compressor, well constructed condenser and evap which you should go over to eliminate vibration/wear points, etc.) you will be fine. 30 year warranty is nice, but is it really worth it? Will you still be in the house in 30 years? Might there be newer technology then that will make a repair seem really unattractive (for instance the current R410A)? Just some things to think about...

lutzTD · #7 04-15-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmercoleza

Sounds familiar. 3 years ago my heat pump went out. The condenser had a hole in it (verified with my sniffer). I considered repairing the hole, but it was in a difficult location, and honestly the unit was 10 years old and had other issues (like insulation coming apart inside the air handler). Got several quotes in the neighborhood of 6500 to 7500 for R22 14 seer 5 tons. Bought a set on eBay and put it in myself. $1900. My electric bills dropped nicely with the newer, more efficient unit.

I know there are HVAC experts on this board, so I tread lightly. But HVAC units are very much like computers in my opinion. Different chassis, different cases and paint, different marketing and price levels (Trane is somewhat perceived as a "luxury" brand), but inside they are all fundamentally the same. They all have a condenser, compressor, switches, a squirrel cage fan, an evap, and electronic control boards. As long as you get one with good quality parts (Copeland scroll compressor, well constructed condenser and evap which you should go over to eliminate vibration/wear points, etc.) you will be fine. 30 year warranty is nice, but is it really worth it? Will you still be in the house in 30 years? Might there be newer technology then that will make a repair seem really unattractive (for instance the current R410A)? Just some things to think about...

they look dead simple, Ive had mine apart and there isnt much there for the money. My county has a dim view of DYI on heat pumps though, I am looking at prices for systems and meticulously recording model numbers and out the door cost to buy it myself. I dont want to begrudge an installer his due, but all be darned if im going to pay someone 2-3K labor for 2 days work. I will add the bay to my search and see what prices I can find. I want to go somewhat high end, but I dont need to pay any empty premiums either

Skid Row Joe · #8 04-15-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

they look dead simple, Ive had mine apart and there isnt much there for the money. My county has a dim view of DYI on heat pumps though, I am looking at prices for systems and meticulously recording model numbers and out the door cost to buy it myself. I dont want to begrudge an installer his due, but all be darned if im going to pay someone 2-3K labor for 2 days work. I will add the bay to my search and see what prices I can find. I want to go somewhat high end, but I dont need to pay any empty premiums either

If you can DIY it, more power to you. Go for it.

When it comes to cooling a home, window units may actually be the viable option costwise versus whole house central AC units.

rs899 · #9 04-15-2011, 04:27 PM

Mine is thirteen years old. If I can make it last three years until I retire I will diy the next one.

Skid Row Joe · #10 04-15-2011, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rs899

Mine is thirteen years old. If I can make it last three years until I retire I will diy the next one.

9.5 years here. A SEER 14 system - Rheem 3-ton HP. I've saved so much money over the time period, it doesn't really matter how much a new system costs - the savings would pay for (2) new systems because of their efficiency alone. I likely won't own the home too much longer, so the replacement is likely a moot point for me.

lutzTD · #11 04-15-2011, 08:09 PM

first bid.

Amana 4ton 14 SEER, new 4x4 slab (hurricane rule) new electric line and fuse on breaker, talking thermostat, reuse copper lines to air handler. 6K installed. I can buy the same setup for $2300 on ebay. Not thinking the labor to install with a block of cement and breaker is worth $3700, stated one day of work for two guys. . This was the result of some passive negotiation, It started at $8700. The guy did not even bother to go in the attic to see the current setup, so I know hes making a lot and not worried that a surprise will cost him. On to quote two.........

Skippy · #12 04-15-2011, 08:15 PM

Talking thermostat? What does it say?

toomany MBZ · #13 04-15-2011, 08:30 PM

^ YOU WILL BE DESTROYED!

Here in VA also, my gas furnace is 7-8 years old, the A/C is 15, both are fine.

lutzTD · #14 04-15-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skippy

Talking thermostat? What does it say?

"you paid WHAT?"

gmercoleza · #15 04-15-2011, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lutzTD

My county has a dim view of DYI on heat pumps though...

A coworker's friend was licensed and unemployed. I paid him $100 to braze the joints with his rosebud torch and charge it (using my silver rod, gauges, R22, and vacuum pump of course). Not that anyone was checking, but if they did then technically speaking a licensed installer took care of the necessary portions of the installation. Took him all of an hour and he was gone.

Everything leading up to that was just dummy grunt work. I disconnected everything and got it prepped, then a buddy came over for a few minutes and helped me lift out the old units and slide in the new. Seriously took an hour, maybe less.

Of course the high/low lines were reused, but I still can't figure out how a team of 2 HVAC techs planned on spending a whole weekend installing it all. I think I could do the whole thing, superheat charging and all, with one arm tied behind my back and it still wouldn't take a whole weekend. The amount of markup for both labor and parts must be incredible.