Parts Catalog Accessories Catalog How To Articles Tech Forums
Call Pelican Parts at 888-280-7799
Shopping Cart Cart | Project List | Order Status | Help



Go Back   PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum > General Discussions > Off-Topic Discussion

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:14 PM
sjh sjh is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 580
Left, Right, Center

There's this strong tendency to reduce a situation or an analysis to a sequence of binary choices. I'm often uncomfortable with this as there may be times that neither 'X' not "anti-X' are the choices I want.

But that said I offer a few comments on the Left/Right dichotomy.

By definition let's speak of the center (being in the middle) and then left/right. Now distributions do not have to be symmetrical but in most cases, when dealing with human populations, etc we tend to view things as typical Gaussian curve with symmetry, 50% to the left of center and 50% to the right.

So here are a few questions -

If I type in "left-wing" in Google (make sure you use the quotes) I get 16.6 million response. If I type in "right-wing" I get 30.3 million responses.

If I change the search term to "far left" I get 16.4 million responses and "far right" I get 24.1 million responses.

So there is somewhere between 50% to 100% more postings using the terms for the extremes of the right then there are for the extremes of the left.

Is this because the population is not symmetric as I initially proposed? Is it because the main-stream media has a bias? Is it due to different reasons than I have stated?

Either way I am not trying to argue that one position is superior to another. I am saying that groups (or individuals) are more likely to be labelled as a member of the extreme right than they are as a member of the extreme left.


Last edited by sjh; 06-04-2011 at 05:07 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:15 PM
The Swede's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 286
Hard to label shades of grey.
__________________
'07 Yukon 2500
'13 Subaru Outback 3.6R
'13 Orbea Carpe 9-speed

Currently Benzless
Formerly: 300TD, S600, E55, 560SEL

---= The forest breathes, listen.
-Native American elder
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:22 PM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
If it were difficult to label then the labeling would be symmetrical about the mean. That is, the errors would be equal on both sides of the mean.

How do we explain the asymmetry?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-03-2011, 08:33 PM
Yak Yak is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,711
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjh View Post
There's this strong tendency to reduce a situation or an analysis to a sequence of binary choices. I'm often uncomfortable with this as there may be times that neither 'X' not "anti-X' are the choices I want.

But that said I offer a few comments on the Left/Right dichotomy.

By definition let's speak of the center (being in the middle) and then left/right. Now distributions do not have to be symmetrical but in most cases, when dealing with human populations, etc we tend to view things as typical Gaussian curve with symmetry, 50% to the left of center and 50% to the right.

So here are a few questions -

If I type in "left-wing" in Google (make sure you use the quotes) I get 16.6 million response. If I type in "right-wing" I get 30.3 million responses.

If I change the search term to "far left" I get 16.4 million responses and "far right" I get 24.1 million responses.

So there is somewhere between 50% to 100% more postings using the terms for the extremes of the right then there are for the extremes of the left.

Is this because the population is not symmetric as I initially proposed? Is it because the main-stream media has a bias? Is it due to different reasons than I have stated?

Either way I am trying to argue that one position is superior to another. I am saying that groups (or individuals) are more likely to be labelled as a member of the extreme right than they are as a member of the extreme left.
The "binary choices" are a classical fallacy of the false dilemma. Wikipedia does a reasonable job explaining it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma

In a "gaussian curve" most of the events are in the middle, and yes they're symmetrical but the majority are in the middle.

Your observations are with semantics from a google search vice a mathematical model with criteria for location on a political spectrum. You are assuming that all hits are concerned with political posts when no limits are imposed on your search terms. There are right and left wings on aircraft, athletes may play on the right or left wings. Birds have them. But in the context of web search, your general assumption is probably true, and the majority of hits from google are probably politically based due to the proliferation of right- vs left- blogs/rants/etc.

However, the terms are based on vernacular. If I say "extreme liberal" does that sound okay? Or just "left-wing liberal pinko commie?" What about "on the right side of the issue" compared to the "far-right side of the issue"?

You could postulate that the use of the word "extreme" is more frequently attached to right-wing issues or stating that someone with conservative views is more likely to be labeled "extreme" and you may be correct, but I don't think using a hit-count from google is a valid data set to make that case. However, I believe the animal known as "mainstream media" doesn't really exist. It's a strawman put up by people who want to disagree with what they read, see or hear. There's the media, mainstream or otherwise. The primary agenda of media outlets is market share. The idea of the objective "fourth estate" is pretty much dead, if that's what you were looking for.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:39 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
I think the expression goes "there are lies, bloody lies & then there are statistics" ~ Best you go read "How to lie with statistics" !
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:53 PM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
If his search criteria are exactly as he posted then the terms outside of his definition are irrelevant to the question he asked.

The "lies, damn lies..." quote (I think it was from Benjamin Disraeli), is a clever means of dismissal, not an explanation.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:57 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
If his search criteria are exactly as he posted then the terms outside of his definition are irrelevant to the question he asked.

The "lies, damn lies..." quote (I think it was from Benjamin Disraeli), is a clever means of dismissal, not an explanation.
& hence the second part of my post !!
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-03-2011, 09:59 PM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
Quote:
Originally Posted by layback40 View Post
& hence the second part of my post !!
The first part of your statement belies the second.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:14 PM
layback40's Avatar
Not Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Victoria Australia - down under!!
Posts: 4,023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
The first part of your statement belies the second.
Thats not your call to make !!
__________________
Grumpy Old Diesel Owners Club group

I no longer question authority, I annoy authority. More effect, less effort....

1967 230-6 auto parts car. rust bucket.
1980 300D now parts car 800k miles
1984 300D 500k miles
1987 250td 160k miles English import
2001 jeep turbo diesel 130k miles
1998 jeep tdi ~ followed me home. Needs a turbo.
1968 Ford F750 truck. 6-354 diesel conversion.
Other toys ~J.D.,Cat & GM ~ mainly earth moving
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Carson City, NV
Posts: 3,851
I do wish there was a better way to succinctly characterize one's politics. I sometimes answer political polls, and while many of the questions are easy for me (Do you approve or disapprove of the job so-and-so is doing? What is your registered party affiliation?), OTOH the one about whether I'm a conservative or a liberal and to what extent is tough for me. I always say conservative, sometimes moderate and sometimes I say strongly, but this isn't a full description of my political opinions. For example, my positions on economic and monetary policy, immigration, environmental policy, and 2nd Amendment rights puts me on the far right. But I also think gay people should have the same rights, responsibilities and privileges as straight people, and that marijuana should be legalized and taxed. And then my views on education and energy could best be described as mixed.
__________________
Whoever said there's nothing more expensive than a cheap Mercedes never had a cheap Jaguar.

83 300D Turbo with manual conversion, early W126 vented front rotors and H4 headlights 400,xxx miles
08 Suzuki GSX-R600 M4 Slip-on 22,xxx miles
88 Jaguar XJS V12 94,xxx miles. Work in progress.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:30 PM
Kuan's Avatar
unband
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: At the Birkebeiner
Posts: 3,841
It just means whatever you typed in occurs in that combination that many times. Google doesn't care about your expectations.
__________________
You don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows - Robert A. Zimmerman
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:33 PM
MTI's Avatar
MTI MTI is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 10,626
Hey, I thought this was going to be about that radio show . . .
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:36 PM
Craig
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Don't you think it's time to retire these terms (left, right, liberal, conservative) as they have become meaningless?
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 06-03-2011, 10:41 PM
Hatterasguy's Avatar
Zero
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Milford, CT
Posts: 19,318
Gray is my favorite color.
__________________
1999 SL500
1969 280SE
2023 Ram 1500
2007 Tiara 3200
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 06-03-2011, 11:55 PM
Botnst's Avatar
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: There castle.
Posts: 44,601
Labels are too convenient. Imagine a sentence without nouns. Even if they're often misleading or fail to capture the whole, no labels is even less intelligible.

Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2024 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website -    DMCA Registered Agent Contact Page