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  #16  
Old 09-30-2011, 01:27 PM
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Obama sactioned his execution.

The Yemeni Government sanctioned his execution.

High value target with a bounty on his head. 'Dead or Alive'.

If he did not want to get killed..he could have turned himself in.

He knew he had a very short shelf life..played the game and lost..and payed the ultimate price.

His successor will meet the same end.

This guy had to go

I am glad that he is gone.

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  #17  
Old 09-30-2011, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by chilcutt View Post
Obama sactioned his execution.
In fact, the report i read said that he directly ordered it.
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The Yemeni Government sanctioned his execution...
That's interesting, isn't it? I'm glad I'm not in charge of the Yemeni government. Weird times over there these days.
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2011, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
In fact, the report i read said that he directly ordered it.That's interesting, isn't it? I'm glad I'm not in charge of the Yemeni government. Weird times over there these days.
Thanks for the clarification Honus.
The Yemeni Government has been problematic. They recently released a whole bunch of AQAP operatives, which I am sure caused U.S. counter-terrorism officials hours of teeth-knashing fits.

But then someone from the U.S got smart and slid them $150 million USD, and they changed their tune.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2011, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
Under any circumstances? I don't know the details of this latest killing, but your policy seems like it would unreasonably shackle our counter-terrorism efforts. I assume that you would not oppose the extra-judicial killing of an American citizen who is wearing a uniform and fighting against us in a war (declared or otherwise). Is that true? If so, where and how would you draw the line between permissible and impermissible extra-judicial killing?
Those are very good points. Obviously I have not thought it through.

I think uniformed soldiers are protected by the Geneva Conventions. So if captured I suspect he would be held as a lawful enemy combatant, but I don't know. That's an interesting question.

If in enemy uniform then he's a fair target. A uniform identifies combatant status. I believe that in the past a captured American in enemy uniform was subject to constitutional trial as a spy. Not sure.

I guess my major beef is the concept of targeted killing. I do not understand why there is some distinction between assassination and targeted killing. I can't put my finger on why it makes me uncomfortable. From a logical POV we might say that targeting enemy gov officials would subject our own to similar targeting.

Finally, I have a problem with killing citizens without due process of law. I have no problem mowing-down foreign combatants. I want a higher standard for our own citizens. Else, what's to stop some president from okaying the killing of a political opponent as a threat to state security?
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:04 PM
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Obama would absolutely crap in his pants if he had to do anything deadfully stressful.[/QUOTE]

I think you may overlook the fact that O is the biggest target in the world for nut jobs. I imagine he has intestinal fortitude which if you saw first hand would impress you.
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  #21  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Obama would absolutely crap in his pants if he had to do anything deadfully stressful.
I think you may overlook the fact that O is the biggest target in the world for nut jobs. I imagine he has intestinal fortitude which if you saw first hand would impress you.[/QUOTE]


Whatever you think Tom. You are correct though, I would be GREATLY surprised if he proved such a thing.

All Presidents have people gunning for them, but they also have the Secret Service to hide behind.

Larry
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Those are very good points. Obviously I have not thought it through.

I think uniformed soldiers are protected by the Geneva Conventions. So if captured I suspect he would be held as a lawful enemy combatant, but I don't know. That's an interesting question.

If in enemy uniform then he's a fair target. A uniform identifies combatant status. I believe that in the past a captured American in enemy uniform was subject to constitutional trial as a spy. Not sure.

I guess my major beef is the concept of targeted killing. I do not understand why there is some distinction between assassination and targeted killing. I can't put my finger on why it makes me uncomfortable. From a logical POV we might say that targeting enemy gov officials would subject our own to similar targeting.

Finally, I have a problem with killing citizens without due process of law. I have no problem mowing-down foreign combatants. I want a higher standard for our own citizens. Else, what's to stop some president from okaying the killing of a political opponent as a threat to state security?
It looks like an assassination to me. I don't know the rules governing this sort of thing, but I'm guessing that those rules are murky.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Botnst View Post
Those are very good points. Obviously I have not thought it through.

I think uniformed soldiers are protected by the Geneva Conventions. So if captured I suspect he would be held as a lawful enemy combatant, but I don't know. That's an interesting question.

If in enemy uniform then he's a fair target. A uniform identifies combatant status. I believe that in the past a captured American in enemy uniform was subject to constitutional trial as a spy. Not sure.

I guess my major beef is the concept of targeted killing. I do not understand why there is some distinction between assassination and targeted killing. I can't put my finger on why it makes me uncomfortable. From a logical POV we might say that targeting enemy gov officials would subject our own to similar targeting.

Finally, I have a problem with killing citizens without due process of law. I have no problem mowing-down foreign combatants. I want a higher standard for our own citizens. Else, what's to stop some president from okaying the killing of a political opponent as a threat to state security?
Try to think of it in terms of what he and his co-horts were planning to do/have done.
Then perhaps you can get your head around why the decision was made to eliminate these guys.
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  #24  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:27 PM
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That's exactly where I don't want it to go. Despots have used that argument for millennia. It's the old "external threat" ploy. We usually fall for it.

That's why I am so uncomfortable with the military or CIA targeting an American citizen for execution without trial. It makes me very uncomfortable as a precedent.

Put another way, would you want Richard Nixon to have the power to designate American citizens for execution without some sort of judicial review? If we give the power to a president who is probably a good guy, rest assured it will be in the hands of a subsequent president who is not.
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  #25  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Honus View Post
It looks like an assassination to me. I don't know the rules governing this sort of thing, but I'm guessing that those rules are murky.
It should be quite clear reading this that the man was engaged in making war on the United States:

Anwar al-Awlaki: al Qaeda's rock star no more – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

Perhaps the part about "killing Americans" is of interest:

Quote:
Last year he called on American Muslims to rise up against their "oppression." In a video released in November 2010, al-Awlaki said there was no need to a fatwa to kill Americans. "Killing Satan does not require a fatwa," he said. "We have reached with them a situation of 'Either Us Or You.'"
Well looks like it was him, not us. That is war. Live by the sword, etc. Since this man was actually seeking ways to kill my children, I think those who defend him or attack Obama over this are fools at best.
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  #26  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryBible View Post
I think you may overlook the fact that O is the biggest target in the world for nut jobs. I imagine he has intestinal fortitude which if you saw first hand would impress you.

Whatever you think Tom. You are correct though, I would be GREATLY surprised if he proved such a thing.

All Presidents have people gunning for them, but they also have the Secret Service to hide behind.

Larry[/QUOTE]

I know you don't think much of this president and I don't think much of GW Bush or RR. But I think it takes a lot of guts to want to be president and I think most people in that office have some real courage.

GHW Bush had actual combat experience so I think he has it without arguement.

Reagan had no combat experience and he took a bullet for all of us. I am no admirer of Reagan's politics but I think in that circumstance he had real guts putting up the front he did.
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  #27  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
Whatever you think Tom. You are correct though, I would be GREATLY surprised if he proved such a thing.

All Presidents have people gunning for them, but they also have the Secret Service to hide behind.

Larry
I know you don't think much of this president and I don't think much of GW Bush or RR. But I think it takes a lot of guts to want to be president and I think most people in that office have some real courage.

GHW Bush had actual combat experience so I think he has it without arguement.

Reagan had no combat experience and he took a bullet for all of us. I am no admirer of Reagan's politics but I think in that circumstance he had real guts putting up the front he did.[/QUOTE]

And I said I thought it would IMPRESS you not surprise you. Please quote me correctly if you choose to quote me.
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..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.
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  #28  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
...Since this man was actually seeking ways to kill my children, I think those who defend him or attack Obama over this are fools at best.
I haven't heard anyone defend Al-Awlaki. If Obama ordered an illegal attack, then maybe it is appropriate to attack him. It is a question worth asking.
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  #29  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:39 PM
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If the US military did this without direction or command from the highest levels, including the Commander in Chief, then perhaps we have a problem with the military? Wouldn't you agree, Mr. Bible? A proper chain of command is very important in these "life and death" situations, no?
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  #30  
Old 09-30-2011, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by t walgamuth View Post
I know you don't think much of this president and I don't think much of GW Bush or RR. But I think it takes a lot of guts to want to be president and I think most people in that office have some real courage.

GHW Bush had actual combat experience so I think he has it without arguement.

Reagan had no combat experience and he took a bullet for all of us. I am no admirer of Reagan's politics but I think in that circumstance he had real guts putting up the front he did.
And I said I thought it would IMPRESS you not surprise you. Please quote me correctly if you choose to quote me.[/QUOTE]

I stand corrected on the misquote. I will DEFINITELY be surprised if I am ever impressed by anything that he does.

I didn't think much of GW either. Ronald Reagan was the last true leader we have seen. You didn't mention Slick Willy in your critique.

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