educators; please help me with my son... - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

MTUpower · #1 10-18-2011, 09:30 PM

My son was just promoted from fourth grade to fifth. It sounds great, but here's the story: He was in the advanced fourth grade math and was bored with that, so after a conference with three of his teachers (math, homeroom and literature) we agreed he would best be helped with an addition of "virtual school" (computer learning at your own pace with a live teacher on the other end) for him alone while in the math class. He had already scored a perfect score in the FCAT math section and was at the top of his class in math. The principal was supposed to enroll him in the virtual school. She did not do so after three weeks. Then another kid was moved into his math class and due to class size requirements someone had to be moved out, so my son was moved to fifth grade math- but it was not a straight swap- it changed 2/3 of his classes to fifth grade classes. He did not like being separated from his friends and this affected him negatively. I asked his teacher to move him back, but it did not seem like it was possible. The fifth grade math was actually behind the forth grade advanced class- they both study the same fifth grade text book, and it appears some other parent complained to get their child into the advanced class and someone had to be moved out. Moving someone out and demoting them would cause parental problems, but moving someone out and promoting (?) them I'm sure seemed like a better move (even though it's not really a promotion). Now in the last week they promoted him to completely fifth grade courses, and his emotional state is worse than ever, and he does not want to go to school at all. He is captain of the chess team and captain of the academic/scholastic games team and clearly one of the most advanced intellectually speaking students in the school. Socially and emotionally he is not ready for fifth grade is my thinking, and his negative reactions and outbursts (crying and not wishing to go to school) support this conclusion. The principal does not wish to change him back- and I'm sure she is caving from pressure by the district on the class size requirement and from the child's parent that was moved into the advanced math class he was taken out of.
Since my wife is a new (interim) teacher at the school I think the principal thinks we "owe" her one, or at least we will not say anything about this for fear of my wife's job. I've expressed my displeasure of my son's "promotion" to his old homeroom teacher via a letter last week and asked for him to be placed back in fourth grade.
The school likes me- I'm president of the chess club, a frequent volunteer and three time career day speaker. Still I'm afraid of the friction I may be causing with my son. I have another son in third grade and the two of them are the strength of the chess club- and our school has placed in the top three in the state with them playing. The academic team just missed first place in the regionals losing to the four time champions.

What should I do? I'm worried about my son not liking school and the long term effects on him. It seems this move has caused one of the top kids in the school to dislike school. Elchivito? Other educators?

kerry · #2 10-18-2011, 09:45 PM

Not speaking as an educator but speaking as a person who as a kid, felt like your son does at one stage of my education. Put him back where he was. The emotional dissatisfaction should be taken very seriously.

Brian Carlton · #3 10-18-2011, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTUpower

Socially and emotionally he is not ready for fifth grade is my thinking, and his negative reactions and outbursts (crying and not wishing to go to school) support this conclusion.

I'm no educator, but I firmly agree with your conclusion.

Advancing a child by one grade will usually result in significant turmoil and shouldn't be done under most any circumstances.

Now you're forced to demand that he be returned to his fourth grade classes, where he'll be infinitely happier.

Just because you have a brilliant child doesn't mean he should be advanced beyond his emotional and physical timetable.

tbomachines · #4 10-18-2011, 10:36 PM

The place for him to excel is summer camp, extracurricular activities and supplemental material. I would agree with the other guys here on the core areas--leave him where he is comfortable. My parents really pushed me to surge ahead of my classmates in a similar way, but they did so through extra stuff on top of the normal class load, which sounds like you are doing through the chess and academic games stuff. Regardless of how advanced his classes are, he's being forced to spend all day about 1 hall away from his friends and familiar faces without the ability to see them except maybe on the bus or something.

t walgamuth · #5 10-18-2011, 11:02 PM

I agree. Put him back and continue to challange him in other ways. If your wife is doing a good job she has nothing to fear.

You can apologize to the school administrators for moving him back but be firm and they will do it.

Kuan · #6 10-19-2011, 09:56 AM

You might try open enrolling in another school. In ours, the challenge program allows kids to work at their level. The challenge program is grouped be level and not by grade. You can have first graders in with fourth graders sometimes.

SwampYankee · #7 10-19-2011, 10:22 AM

Is the teacher open to giving him more challenging work? We ran into very much the same issues with our oldest son. He wasn't challenged enough intellectually (which manifested itself through his screwing around and getting in trouble in class) but emotionally/maturity-wise he wasn't ready to jump ahead. It wasn't an easy decision but we chose to keep him with his same-aged peers but were fortunate enough to have teachers, and a principal, who was willing to have a separate curriculum for him. Not everyone will be as lucky.

If you do choose to keep him with his friends, he will need to be challenged. If the school can't or isn't willing to do so, the responsibility will fall to you. In the couple of cases where my son wasn't, he became complacent because things were so easy that he didn't have to work for it. It took time to correct that.

Kuan · #8 10-19-2011, 10:28 AM

BTW notice being socially mature is hardly a problem with girls at this age?

SwampYankee · #9 10-19-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuan

BTW notice being socially mature is hardly a problem with girls at this age?

Absolutely. And the maturity gap will continue to widen.

My 11yoD is far more mature than my 13yoS.

elchivito · #10 10-19-2011, 11:11 AM

If I'm reading correctly it would seem that you can't put him back, right?

Here's my take. I early-promoted a few kids over the years. The only ones who were successful at it were not only intellectually ahead but also physically and socially ready.In addition, they wanted to move up. I can think of two who I was essentially ordered to promote by my superintendent. Good old boy network parent requests. Neither did well from that point on and they were both bright kids, but didn't want to move up.
It sounds like your kid is intellectually capable but not socially ready. There's a good chance that he's not going to magically decide he likes 5th grade. There is no conclusive evidence that skipping a grade helps advanced students.
You've got a further complication with your wife being employed by the school. For her part, it can often be difficult for a teacher with kids in the same school to make the separation between parent and employee. I've been there. You should be the one to pursue this and advise your wife to stay out of it and avoid teacher's lounge discussions about it.
I would continue pressing to have your son put back into 4th grade, but at the same time I'd encourage him to give 5th grade a bit more of a shot. Make a two or three week deal with him. I'd also officially request that he start seeing the school counselor. Meet the counselor first by yourself. He or she may be able to help your boy with the transition, and will be able to back you up if the situation continues to be untenable. If the school's counselor is weak or non-existent, get some private counseling for him, with documentation. You may need to contact the district superintendent, going over the principal's head, but I would save that card until it's necessary and not make any allusions to it in the meantime. If you're an active parent, an asset to the school, the principal I'm sure knows that YOU know the chain of command.
If worse comes to worse, you may have to pull him for his own good. I wouldn't threaten to do that unless you've scouted out the other school opportunities nearby and know for certain that he can move.
In all communication from this point on, document everything. If you can do it without intimidating the principal, I'd suggest an impartial witness in all oral communications, to avoid he said she said situations and to let her know you're serious and not going to back down.
Good luck and keep us posted.

elchivito · #11 10-19-2011, 11:15 AM

From 4th to 8th grade most girls are physically and emotionally about a year or year and a half ahead of their male peers.

MTUpower · #12 10-19-2011, 11:31 AM

Thank you all for the responses. Since I believe it will be difficult to get the Principal to change him back to fourth grade I need to now try to either #1) convince them (the principal and district) to change him back, and/or get as much support for my son in the status quo of fifth grade, or #2) Go nuclear and attempt to force them to change him back.

I prefer #1, however the collateral damage may be worse than the cure. If my wife loses her job and is "blackballed" then she is out a career in our public school district. I can see that happening. Since she is a newly hired interim teacher her job is by no means secure. If I push too much for my son I fear for my wife's job. If for some reason the Principal really does not like what I'm doing she may push that pressure up to district and then my wife may not be viewed favorably in other schools. Since school is so very political I must be ultra sensitive here.
This leads me to just writing a letter to the principal (whom I've never met- it seems she does not like to meet parents) asking to move him back if possible and if it's not possible to seek out methods to support him while making the transition. I doubt she'll move him back without strong pressure, and will not do much in the way of support while keeping him in fifth grade. She did not even know it was she that was supposed to enroll him in the "virtual school", so I doubt I'll have success in asking for support.

Option #2 is to go nuclear, which is to either have my son refuse to go to fifth grade classes, or retain an attorney. My son on tuesday am nearly refused to get out of the car to go to school (he was crying and upset), my wife called me and I talked with him and finally my wife said the school police would be coming to take him to class. He then went to class. I know it was the wrong statement for my wife to make, but what can she do? She has to go to work, and cannot leave a student/child alone in the parking lot. I've told my son that if he really feels like that again to just go inside school with mom but then go to the office and talk with a counselor and explain he how he feels and that he does not want to go to fifth grade classes. This will provide a record if an attorney is needed later.

If I do write the letter the goal is to accomplish with Irish diplomacy the goal of getting him back to fourth grade, and also to set the ground work for the nuclear option. I'm sure that district and the Principal's goal is not to take one of the brightest students they have and make him hate going to school. I was also bored and complacent in early school years and it certainly contributed to me not attaining my full potential later in life. The apple did not fall far from the tree with this son; he is very smart and a quick study, but bored easily. The devil will make use of his bored mind.

What have I overlooked? Are my thoughts about a letter sound? Should I revise my thinking with regards to the letter, or not send one at all? Should my son just suck it up and continue with fifth grade classes and I throw a party for him to feel better? Buy him an I-pad? Is there an option #3?

pj67coll · #13 10-19-2011, 11:36 AM

Good idea to have him hang out with the counsellor while "negotiations" are in progress. You are right that school is heavily political so you need to tread carefully there. Is there not a department at "district" level that deals with special ed, both in terms or deficiencies and advanced placement that you can appeal to?

- Peter.

MTUpower · #14 10-19-2011, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

If I'm reading correctly it would seem that you can't put him back, right? ...

Just the kind of advice I was hoping to get. I advised my wife immediately several months back to tell all involved that she was letting me take the lead in this. She should have told everyone to speak with me about my son, but she did not make that clear and the principal has talked with her at least twice about this matter while meeting with her in reference to other school business. I understand documentation will be key. In my letter I will ask for a school counselor to meet with MS on an as needed basis.

Thank you for the response.

Kuan · #15 10-19-2011, 11:42 AM

Switch schools man, switch schools. A school must be a good fit for a child, you cannot force the child to fit the school. You'll be looking at the same damn thing year after year after year if you don't figure it out now.