Religous Rednecks should watch this:
 

Niall Ferguson: The 6 killer apps of prosperity - YouTube

If you are not a redneck you may email me for permission to watch it...

That was pretty good. Thanks.

Laws that arise from reason. What a great idea.

Noam Chomsky
 

ROCKS.

Ferguson has a very good overview of this stuff. I think he's correct and unfortunately even more so about the end of a 500 year shift of power to the west.

- Peter.

He references Smith as the source of his idea. He could just have well have referenced Marx.

Guys, I am pleasantly surprised by all of your rational and kind reactions to the video....Marx (and Engels) were a smart guys... The " Soviet Communists " did not practice what he preached....
If one has read any of Smith's 1776 book... it is amazing that he had that kind of vision that far back...

Kerry, though he could have referenced Marx instead..... that would have taken away that joke about that being the most important thing which happened in 1776....

I also liked the part where he said Germany was split into two, EG gave us the Trabant, WG gave us the MB. :D

I am a Redneck and I am a Christian, I am NOT religious. :D

Gee, none of the killer apps include:

racism

colonialism

imperialism

state supported capitalism

barbarism

etc.

sorry, but i think homeboy needs to go back to school, and study the history of the english empire.

or did i miss something?

(specifically, he might want to brush up on cecil rhodes, the british east india company, the opium trade/wars, etc. )

I thought that would warm some hearts around here.....

Tonkovich, I assume you are kidding, if not, yes you missed something..

Nice video. I hope lots of folks watch it and it gets them thinking.

The only problem being that the argument doesn't hold water. MB existed prior to the split.

oh please, the man was a self professed "thatcherite". need any more be said. he spends his time justifying the ill deeds of empire . (specifically, the british version.)

(or were you happy to see a war fought over a couple of islands full of sheep, at the cost of almost 1,000 lives, several thousands wounded, and millions of pounds? that was "maggy's" big moment, after all. )

anyway, sad to see that revisionist history is still so popular.

oh, and might want to read up about "TED" talks, a gathering of the rich, powerful and elite.

one question please: do you know anything about the source of the video you posted? and, if so, why not? seriously. you probably disagree with my politics. do you know where your politics/ideas are coming from?

y

I thought his argument implied that those things were made possible by his apps.

okay. and am i the only person that cares about such things?

i guess so.

I don't think so. I don't see his analysis as justifying those kinds of things, just explaining how they came about. Capitalism has been effective because of . . . .

The most important question he avoided--how can we transcend it.

transcend what? the reality of how the west "triumphed"?

a shrink of mine told me years ago that one cannot transcend the real world. while i long ago stopped seeing him, i do think he was correct on that single issue.

anyway, passed by sister amy's temple today, on the way from the paint store to a job. maybe i am wrong? those folks flourish, sucking up the holy word a la semple mcpherson.

Yes, transcend the system which allowed the west to triumph. Understanding how that power developed is a first step in changing it.

uh, from niall ferguson, the thatcherite? wiser folks than i have pointed out his desire to "rehabilitate" empire. you're barking up the wrong tree.

interestingly, i am watching an interview with herman cain, another man who sees the benefits of sucking up to the powerful. (that would be the koch brothers)

Right now he has a whole lot more credibility than you do. If you want to make silly claims at least back them up with some kind of citation or counter point rather than trying to hide your lack of knowledge by talking over people's heads. Capitalizing a few words here and there might help your credibility gap too. Just saying ;)

I wasn't expecting it from him.

"Homeboy" as you put it, knows a hell of a lot more about the history of the British Empire, and everything else I dare say than you do. You did indeed miss a lot. All the points you wring your hands about have been addressed by him in many other media, both on TV and in his books.

At no stage does he justify them on moralistic grounds, he merely points out the facile assumptions of those who, blinded by political correctness are unable to see alternatives outside of hackneyd old anti-western cliches.

- Peter.

Ferguson received a Demyship (half-scholarship) at Magdalen College, Oxford, graduating with a first-class honours degree in History in 1985.[11] Whilst at Oxford he became best friends with Andrew Sullivan based on a shared love of right-wing politics and punk music.[12] He became a Thatcherite by 1982, identifying the position with "the Sex Pistols' position in 1977: it was a rebellion against the stuffy corporatism of the 70s." (from wiki)

1982

The Falklands War (Spanish: Guerra de las Malvinas or Guerra del Atlántico Sur), also called the Falklands Conflict or Falklands Crisis, was fought in 1982 between Argentina and the United Kingdom (UK) over the disputed Falkland Islands and South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands.

to believe in thatcher's politics, especially at the time of the ridiculous war over island populated mainly by sheep, suggests a definite lack of common sense.

then there are his books. (to use the term generously)

several of them glorify the british empire and the west in general.

try staying on topic, and not attacking me. i am quite familiar with the man and his drivel.

he's thomas friedman -:eek: - with an accent.

is this what you call facts now?



oh, and was there something about the opium trade and wars that i missed, that showed the brits as benevolent drug dealers and invaders? help me out

Did this rant make sense to anybody?

Not really, though I can see that he and I differ in our opinions of the Falklands War.

You have to have hung around a bunch of leftist academic types for it to do so.

- Peter.

As they should. Thatcher rules! West is best.

- Peter.

I take offense in his dissing of sheep.....

not surprised that you have so much respect for them. perhaps something in common?

In addition to the obvious clothing provided by them...
they provide the Lanolin used in FluidFilm... used in cavities of our old cars to retard rusting.

well, thank you. coming from you, i take that as a compliment.

actually, i use lambskin rollers daily, as i do work as a house and set painter. so i recognize that sheep do contribute to our lives.

i have "assumed" nothing; niall ferguson is an apologist for the evils of the british empire, starting when he was 18, and pledged his allegiance to margaret thatcher, as she declared war on the poor, workers, and argentina. these are all facts.

here's a definition of "sheepism"

http://www.definition-of.net/sheepism

draw your own conclusions

The question in this video that went unaddressed: is reconvergence a positive development? In the long run, I would say, yes.

That was an interesting film Greg - thanks for posting the link.

I do however think his theory skipped over two important points.

1) Where does wealth come from?
2) The importance of slavery in any empire.


As for discussion in this thread about the Falklands - I think you'll find that sheep weren't important to Mrs T despite their rust proofing, insulating and tasty properties.

I suggest mineral rights were.

Also don't forget, at the time Mrs T was having a full on battle with the unions in the UK at the time. She was alienating a large proportion of the voting population that even the Sun newspaper could not keep in line for her. What she needed was a good war to divert the attention from her community wrecking power grabbing activities.

I have sheep. I like sheep. Sheep = $$$ Interesting talk too. Thanks

Didnt we send alot of jobs overseas and across the border killing the middle class and developing a system of the wealthy are more important than the common man.This is the structure chosen by and for cheap labor on US companies behalf ,if this speach maker wants to govern it under a wave of history causing sillyness ,Im not one to listen.China Prospers from selling goods to the US. with a giant flood of cheaper made products thus taking away jobs from the US,no slide ruler needed here.
Heres a better study ,China builds a factory to make footballs ,the machines ,materials and labor are all included in the final value of each unit.Its shipping cost to the US is even subsidized thru the fuel powering the ship.China is now the manufacturer leaving an end result for Big Business,more profit.The other side of the coin of coarse is ,no new jobs ,the final conclussion in all of this talk is what will turn the job market around here in the US ?The answer our Govt has their hands tied, these Companies of China / America are still insisting on a helping hand, keeping this system running. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Fortunately Thatcher won all three wars. And even apologists for dictatorships such as you are fully aware that Argentina invaded the Falklands. Thatcher not only had every right to fight them but the world is a better place for the fact that she did and that she won.

By the way, only leftoids think the British Empire needs apologizing for.

- Peter.

well, thank you very much.

actually, the british and argentine governments were equally reprehensible. and at that time - am i to assume you were living there in the 80's? - south africa was busy defending apartheid. also reprehensible. so there is a consistency to your beliefs.

as always, you resort to name-calling. i am not a "leftoid", nor a " left wing academic". i have mentioned several times that i paint houses and sets for a living. i find academia to be pretentious and petty, and i see the left as equally ridiculous as the right.

additionally, aren't you the man that was almost arrested for assaulting some children at a public gathering? so your bullying and name-calling is a pattern, one reminiscent of the british empire. so predictable. i can only imagine what your beliefs are regarding the situation in south africa.

wow, someone with a brain is posting here, and posting what is obvious - except to the sheep. thank you, sir.

If you truly believe that then there is no point wasting time attempting further discussion with you on that subject, other than to suggest that you might do yourself a favor by actually trying to acquaint yourself with some Argentinians who had the misfortune to live in the country during that time and ask them their opinion.

No, South Africa was not busy defending apartheid. A portion of the white south african populace which ran the place were busy defending it, including some of my family, other portions of the white south african populace were busy resisting it, including most of my family. Needless to say most of the rest of the populace who were non white were also resisting it.

If you mean the situation during the apartheid years, I opposed it, as did most people I know, family and friends etc, though of course not all. Not just on moral grounds but also simply as a matter of practicality given the obvious damage it was doing to the country and it's future.

Unfortunately this was a sort of catch 22 situation where it really didn't matter what official policy was persued by what government because as it was africa it was pretty certain it was all going down the toilet.

If you mean the current situation post apartheid, it has largely gone down the toilet. This is unfortunate, though neither surprising nor unforseen. The only real regret in my life is I didn't manage to get the hell out of it sooner that I did and thus wasted my 20's in the place.

However unlike you, I do, in fact have some first hand experience of living in a semi-dictatorship, with a government of dumbasses, bent on a Naziesque weltanschaung resulting in severe hardship, and societal disintegration with civil war and military and police repression.

A dammed site closer to the situation in Argentina with it's military dictatorship than Britain under Thathcer no matter what you might think of her, and so I will bluntly state your attempt to link the british and argentine governments as equivalent is simply silly.

- Peter.

You could not have explained it any more simpler than that.

Actually he's not explained "it" at all. He appears to have utterly missed the point of Ferguson's speech.

- Peter.

A Brief History of The British Empire - YouTube
No the message was not lost ,instead it was actually found in this video.These Common rules of trade have brought The British Empire to were it is today ,we adopted their practices very well and to the 10th power.If you go back in History in these times when Britian was taking up trade with Hong Kong ,then asked a local businessmen of the era "does this affect your income?",I think you know what his answer would be. He must of had a Ferguson tell him a tale of Great Divergence.The REAL trouble that remains with the USA and its trade with China is its a one way street mostly .Ive recently heard that the Chinese actually hunger for US built machinery,Knowing this someone has already began to fill this need with cloned US built machines.
We suffer under what we are told about how trade with China is a good thing and a common answer when asked about the subject comes into play,"Well, if we didnt Participate we would pay more for that product" ,this is completely wrong ,the truth is the market tells what someone is willing to pay for a product,its the consumer who is the end price giver ,or it does not sell. The truth at the end is China will continue its so called Divergence trade ,politicians will continue to lie about what the real problem is ,and someone outside of this country will continue to profit BIG!!!!

Just keep at it. You're bound to convince somebody besides yourself.

This thread is insulting to sheep


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