E. Asian Students ahead of the class - Page 3 - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

layback40 · #31 02-19-2012, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aklim

I disagree with that. Just beating the kid without providing a direction isn't achieving much. After all, I know that the beating will stop at some point. However, showing them the results of what happens to failures is different. It's like telling you "Drugs are bad" doesn't stop anything more than the warning on cigarette packs. Watching someone hack their lungs out will stick with you for a much longer time that the cigarette warnings, assuming anyone reads more than the label to know if they are buying Marlboro, Kent or Basic, etc, etc.

It is a consequence that they understand.
"I can do what I like & there are no consequences. Lets see how far we can push the boundaries"

chilcutt · #32 02-19-2012, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by layback40

On this I do agree with you !!! Not only in the states !!

Layback, the Aussies have to be doing something right.
My next door nieghbors 30 yr old daughter leaves next week for Sydney.
Where she will spend the next 2 years finishing her studies, hopefully obtaining her PHD in education.

She tells me that she would really like to meet a nice young Australian man, and settledown there some day.

layback40 · #33 02-19-2012, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

Layback, the Aussies have to be doing something right.
My next door nieghbors 30 yr old daughter leaves next week for Sydney.
Where she will spend the next 2 years finishing her studies, hopefully obtaining her PHD in education.

She tells me that she would really like to meet a nice young Australian man, and settledown there some day.

I am sure there will be plenty of them at the university she attends !!

Normally over here those wishing to become a school principal do their masters or Phd.
She will learn many different ways of education over here to those learned where you are.

aklim · #34 02-19-2012, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

As for the work force: The drastic differance here is that the work force is based on SURVIVAL. As opposed to being in the States-'Putting in your 8-and hitting the gate-so you can go drink beer and play softball'. One has to keep in mind that Singapore is a very young country, and 45 yrs ago was still an emerging backwater, poverty stricken,'not-so-good' place to be. Of course the school aged children today do not remember all of that-BUT it is drilled into their heads that 'Hey, if you want to live a life like they do in the West, then education is the vehicle that will get you there".

I believe there is more self-discipline here-(probably because the access to drugs is virtually non-existant).
Seems to me that children in the States could also excell to the levels of Asian children..simply by having more parental control/interaction.
Why the parents in the States for a large part are not there for their children is another story all together-I suppose.

Drill with a portable drill till the bit comes out the other side and it won't help if they cannot see an example of what happens when you fail to achieve. Thing is, over there are are way more examples of what happens when you fail, at least it was when I was there. It may have changed some but you tell me.

Drugs aren't the issue, I don't think. Sure, it doesn't help but we were dragged into a drug rehab program when young and got to see what they looked like in there so again, there was visible consequence not some warning on the box of your cigarette pack.

kerry · #35 02-19-2012, 10:07 AM

One method for measuring the success of these different country's education techniques is to look at the higher educational systems. Are the universities in these countries with high math scores at the cutting edge of research and development? Despite the US lackluster performance in K12 ratings, US universities are ranked very high in world universities.

Air&Road · #36 02-19-2012, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilcutt

They are up to 3 years above peers in the West.

Sydney: Western school children are up to three years behind those in Shanghai, and success in Asian education is not just the product of pushy 'Tiger Parents', an Australian report released yesterday.

The study by independent think-tank Grattan Institute said East Asia was the center of high-performance in school's, with four of the worlds top systems in the region- Hong Kong, South Korea, Shanghai and Singapore.

"In Shanghai, the average 15 yr old - mathmatics student is performing at a level two to three times above his or her counterpart in Australia, the United States and Europe. That has profound consequences. As economic power is shifting from West to East, high performance in education is too", said Grattan's school education program director Ben Jensen.

*What I want to discuss is why this is happening. And what can be done to help the Western kids keep up.

Chilcutt

The answer is simple, at least for the US. Do away with the Department of Education and the teachers unions. Make schools competitive, such that the most effective schools attract the students in a free enterprise framework.

Give this a few years and problem solved.

aklim · #37 02-19-2012, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LarryBible

The answer is simple, at least for the US. Do away with the Department of Education and the teachers unions. Make schools competitive, such that the most effective schools attract the students in a free enterprise framework.

Give this a few years and problem solved.

It is very easy to make schools competitive. Simply let those that do not want to be there leave. When you are there of your own free will like say doing a Phd or Masters or even undergraduate, you are there to learn and will want to learn. When you are tossed there and made to stay, you will resent it and make trouble and disrupt those that want to learn. School should be something that you WANT to go to as opposed to MADE to go to. It should be an option

MTUpower · #38 02-19-2012, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Yep. We decided a long time ago that "all students can learn". We dropped funding for industrial and manual arts. What we ended up with was wholesale education. Gravitation towards the mean. With No Child Left Untested, we forced educators to focus on gross numbers, sorting out student who are likely to excel is a no-no. Add to that the increasing notion that teachers are expected to make silk purses out of sow's ears; taking kids whose parents never read to them, have no reading materials in the home beyond check-out line tabloids, who haven't had breakfast and were allowed to stay up all night on FaceBook or playing WOW, and you have a recipe for low achievement. Garbage in, Garbage out. Why we're surprised about this is a mystery.

Bingo.

kerry · #39 02-19-2012, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Yep. We decided a long time ago that "all students can learn". .

And that's not just an accident. The huge disparity between rich and poor which has been accelerating since the Reagan years coincides with the development of this idea. It's necessary because the 'equal opportunity' ideology justifies the huge socio-economic differences on the grounds that anyone can get to the top if they work hard enough. If they're not at the top it's because they didn't work hard enough. If the educational system were to admit that some people are better prepared to excel than others, it puts the lie to capitalist meritocracy.

Air&Road · #40 02-19-2012, 11:49 AM

Yes, wouldn't it be a shame to have the hard working, successful student be recognized for it. It would be terrible to see the lazy, slow student NOT be recognized for doing nothing.

That's the way the libs look at it.

Kuan · #41 02-19-2012, 12:53 PM

If you take two people with same intelligence but different starting times, they will both reach approximately the same level of skill given a reasonable amount of time. Sure, kids can do remarkable adult stuff at the age of eight, but it's not remarkable at the age of 18. They all taper off after awhile.

pj67coll · #42 02-19-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

And that's not just an accident. The huge disparity between rich and poor which has been accelerating since the Reagan years coincides with the development of this idea. It's necessary because the 'equal opportunity' ideology justifies the huge socio-economic differences on the grounds that anyone can get to the top if they work hard enough. If they're not at the top it's because they didn't work hard enough. If the educational system were to admit that some people are better prepared to excel than others, it puts the lie to capitalist meritocracy.

It has nothing to do with Reagan, Capitalism, or Meritocracy. It has to do with the old liberal idiocy of were all equal, which neither capitalism nor meritocracy espouse.

- Peter.

pj67coll · #43 02-19-2012, 12:59 PM

Fundamentally the reason for this is very simple. Asians - in general - are disciplined and hard working, westerners - in general - are lazy and degenerate.

- Peter.

MTI · #44 02-19-2012, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

Fundamentally the reason for this is very simple. Asians - in general - are disciplined and hard working, westerners - in general - are lazy and degenerate.

- Peter.

I suppose that's how stereotypes, in general, work and perpetuate.