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  #16  
Old 03-13-2012, 10:43 AM
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Exhaling smoke into a public place . . . when you consider it, how far removed is it from spitting, coughing or sneezing in that same public space?

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  #17  
Old 03-13-2012, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Second hand smoke is being used as the excuse to pass more and more legislation. Right now the MD legislature is preparing to pass a law to make it illegal to smoke in a car with an occupant under 8 years old. The sponsors wanted to prohibit allowing a achild in any car in which someone had ever smoked. The "dangers" of second smoke is cited as the reason we need to protect the children.

My question is simple. Are there studies that show causality? I know of anecdotal stories, but are there scientific studies? I also know that the UN spiked its own study about a decade ago because it did not find a solid link.

So, is second hand smoke as dangerous as they want us to believe, or is this more junk science passed off as real research?
Please notice that I am not advocating any position regarding legislation--I am only asking questions.
I really don't know why you need a study to figure out that the cancer causing fumes spewing from some drug addicted moron's face isn't good for children.
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  #18  
Old 03-13-2012, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MTI View Post
Exhaling smoke into a public place . . . when you consider it, how far removed is it from spitting, coughing or sneezing in that same public space?
I certainly don't want to breathe some nicotine addict's spew. Smokers should be put into concentration camps and gassed with their own fumes.
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  #19  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
I certainly don't want to breathe some nicotine addict's spew. Smokers should be put into concentration camps and gassed with their own fumes.
How does the exhaust from your car compare to the exhaust from a cigarette?

I'm sick of all the gassers clouding up my air. They should be forced to park outside of the cities and walk in.
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  #20  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
How does the exhaust from your car compare to the exhaust from a cigarette?
It doesn't really. Given the "cost-benefit" way of looking . . . there should be little objection to lowering emissions all the way to zero emissions.
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  #21  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by JollyRoger View Post
I really don't know why you need a study to figure out that the cancer causing fumes spewing from some drug addicted moron's face isn't good for children.
The difference is between an irritant and a health risk. There is no guarantee that you will not be irritated by someone else's behavior. I agree that you should not have to endure a health risk due to someone else's behavior, however.
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  #22  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:28 AM
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Have you ever had someone close to you die of lung cancer? I would call it much more than an "irritant", it is a violently poisonous combination of cancer-causing gas, and is of use only to those people who are stupid enough to trade decades of their lives for a mouthful of smoke, and they need to keep such an incredible level of stupidity strictly to their own selves, and the hell away from me and mine.
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  #23  
Old 03-13-2012, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cmbdiesel View Post
How does the exhaust from your car compare to the exhaust from a cigarette?

I'm sick of all the gassers clouding up my air. They should be forced to park outside of the cities and walk in.
I'm ok with that.
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  #24  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
Well, no I am not. If 2nd hand smoke is indeed toxic and dangerous, then it should be limited.

I do have a problem with your idea of the population doing "the right thing". I would ask, "the right thing" as defined by whom? That argument could be broadened to force people to do all sorts of things that some desire them to do.

If you still do not believe that the by-product of combustion is toxic to the human body, then there is no more discussion possible. You'll have to go your own way with the smokers. Most of them don't believe it either.

If you do not believe that the "right thing" would be to prevent the atmosphere from being contaminated by the by-products of combustion, whether it be from a cigarette or from a coal burning power plant, then, again, you're part of the problem and there is no further discussion possible.

The argument is always broadened to force people to do the "right thing". As I already explained to you, if people would do the right thing, the necessity for 90% of the laws of the land would be eliminated.

The problem with the country is that the average moron won't understand the "right thing". That's why we need so many laws.
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  #25  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by MS Fowler View Post
The difference is between an irritant and a health risk.
Below a specific concentration in ppm it's an irritant.

Above that concentration it's a health risk.

The specific concentration is variable dependent on the person.

You're welcome to investigate the exact concentration for yourself and attempt to measure your environment to stay below the level of health risk.
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  #26  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:18 PM
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I am still trying to get beyond the concept that being a nicotine drug addict s OK in the eyes of the law but being a THC addict is not. Once we iron out that little discrepancy we can then move on to the issue of whether or not nicotine addicts should be able to get their drug fix in public or not.
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  #27  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Carlton View Post
If you still do not believe that the by-product of combustion is toxic to the human body, then there is no more discussion possible. You'll have to go your own way with the smokers. Most of them don't believe it either.

If you do not believe that the "right thing" would be to prevent the atmosphere from being contaminated by the by-products of combustion, whether it be from a cigarette or from a coal burning power plant, then, again, you're part of the problem and there is no further discussion possible.
x2. I already posted a link to the hundreds of scientific studies done on the topic, directly addressing the topic in the OP. Many times proven, case closed. Not much else to go from here unless you go into the forbidden zone of legislation as outlined by the OP.
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  #28  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
I am still trying to get beyond the concept that being a nicotine drug addict s OK in the eyes of the law but being a THC addict is not. Once we iron out that little discrepancy we can then move on to the issue of whether or not nicotine addicts should be able to get their drug fix in public or not.
OR.... whether the THC crowd should be able to get theirs in public too.

The wave is working it's way around the stadium now....
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  #29  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
I am still trying to get beyond the concept that being a nicotine drug addict s OK in the eyes of the law but being a THC addict is not. Once we iron out that little discrepancy we can then move on to the issue of whether or not nicotine addicts should be able to get their drug fix in public or not.
Why limit it to THC?

One could make an argument that any drug is perfectly OK for consumption by any person, provided they accept the consequences and DO NOT expect society to absorb those consequences.

As a society, we tolerate the consequences of alcohol and of tobacco. Other drugs are not tolerated (unless administered by a physician). No good reason unless you consider alcohol and tobacco to be relatively benign as compared to other drugs.
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  #30  
Old 03-13-2012, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmash View Post
I am still trying to get beyond the concept that being a nicotine drug addict s OK in the eyes of the law but being a THC addict is not. Once we iron out that little discrepancy we can then move on to the issue of whether or not nicotine addicts should be able to get their drug fix in public or not.
In some places (read: San Fran) being a THC user is almost more socially and legally acceptable than being a nicotine user.

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