More on the Gulen movement - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

kerry · #1 04-25-2012, 10:24 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/25/world/middleeast/turkey-feels-sway-of-fethullah-gulen-a-reclusive-cleric.html

It's probably not an accident that I got an e-mail from my 'handler' at the organization the day before this story runs wanting to get together with me. I've never known a group so focused and skilled at controlling what is written about them in the media. You can bet that right at this moment there are hundreds if not thousands of people working to counter the effects of this story.

Txjake · #2 04-25-2012, 11:08 AM

more crazy, organized religion cult ****.....

kerry · #3 04-25-2012, 11:29 AM

Agreed, but in organizational skill, propaganda sophistication and effective achievement of goals, I'd say there are few groups that are it's equal. Perhaps Mormonism and the Catholic church but neither of those achieved their level of success in such a short period of time as Gulen. It might be because Gulen deliberately married himself to the business class which provided impressive economic resources early in the movement's development. It's comparable to Scientology's efforts to attach itself to the Hollywood elite but my guess is that Gulen's organization exceeds the skill of Scientology in his global reach. I think the main reason for this success is absolute centralized authority in Gulen. His followers are astoundingly obedient and as long as he's alive there's no ambiguity in goals or behavior, unlike Christianity which took a long time to centralize it's authority.

strelnik · #4 04-25-2012, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Agreed, but in organizational skill, propaganda sophistication and effective achievement of goals, I'd say there are few groups that are it's equal. Perhaps Mormonism and the Catholic church but neither of those achieved their level of success in such a short period of time as Gulen. It might be because Gulen deliberately married himself to the business class which provided impressive economic resources early in the movement's development. It's comparable to Scientology's efforts to attach itself to the Hollywood elite but my guess is that Gulen's organization exceeds the skill of Scientology in his global reach. I think the main reason for this success is absolute centralized authority in Gulen. His followers are astoundingly obedient and as long as he's alive there's no ambiguity in goals or behavior, unlike Christianity which took a long time to centralize it's authority.

Agreed. Once Jesus was gone, without a truly clearly defined successor, that was a problem.
Ditto with Moahammad. When the warrior (caliph) and Priest (imam) are now two separate people, the traditional tug-of-war continues.

But the warrior priest always wins: Either the General's talking or the Heavenly One is talking. Either way: authority is as clear-cut as the edge of his sword.

The Clk Man · #5 04-25-2012, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

Agreed, but in organizational skill, propaganda sophistication and effective achievement of goals, I'd say there are few groups that are it's equal. Perhaps Mormonism and the Catholic church but neither of those achieved their level of success in such a short period of time as Gulen. It might be because Gulen deliberately married himself to the business class which provided impressive economic resources early in the movement's development. It's comparable to Scientology's efforts to attach itself to the Hollywood elite but my guess is that Gulen's organization exceeds the skill of Scientology in his global reach. I think the main reason for this success is absolute centralized authority in Gulen. His followers are astoundingly obedient and as long as he's alive there's no ambiguity in goals or behavior, unlike Christianity which took a long time to centralize it's authority.

I totally agree.

carry · #6 05-01-2012, 09:01 AM

this is unbelievable. moving from a couple of news article, everybody is suddenly an expert on the Gulen movement and the discussion of so-called experts pf the Gulen movement is now taken to everywhere including car parts website.

I consider myself attached to the Gulen movement, or the Hizmet movement. And I am pretty sure that nobody from the Gulen movement is trying to counter the effects of the news story Kerry learned about before even it is published (an orchestrated move?). My real concern is why everybody in the West is ready to join a campaign to discredit a movement they know so little about. It should be clear, if the story is read carefully, that the NYT acts upon the claims by the critics of the Gulen movement without giving fare space to its advocates. How would a regular NYT reader know that, for example, the banning of an anti-Gulen book discussed in the article was rejected by Gulen himself publicly? Or, how would a regular American be familiar with the nature of anti-Gulen groups or people in Turkey with conflicting claims/assessments on Gulen and the Gulen movement? If you are not familiar well with the Turkish politics, the NYT article will look to you as an objective piece about a dangerous group trying to take over the country. Whereas in reality, the Gulen movement is one of the successful social movements in Turkey doing the hardwork of building schools, tutoring centers, charity organizations, and hospitals breaking the mold of an imposed ideology.

Why do we see a rise of anti-Gulen movement news in the Western media right now? I think it has its roots in the current struggle in Turkey between the old guard and the new social forces, of which the Gulen movement is one. For decades, the number one threat by the coup-loving generals of Turkey was Fethullah Gulen. Why? Because Gulen's influence on the society was surpassing the aggressive secularism of the old guard. Now, these generals with their methods including their skilled manipulation of the media and the civil society are giving the account of their past. In the old times, the governments couldn't move their fingers without implicit consent of the army chiefs. And only very few people in the West can tell how bad the control of the army over the Turkish society was. I wouldn't expect a NYT reporter get a handle of Turkish politics to understand the real dynamics in Turkey. He is just writing what he is told to without looking at the true motivations of his primary sources. But, I would invite anyone just to read more and from diverse sources of information. Reasonable people in the West have been longing for a peaceful and conciliatory voice in the Islamic world. If you look at carefully, you will see that the Gulen movement is already doing that.

kerry · #7 05-01-2012, 09:14 AM

That post is a confirmation of the extremely effective techniques that the movement has in controlling their public image. Even a thread in a car forum is targeted for opposition. Would you care to reveal to use the exact circumstances whereby you happened upon this thread and decided to respond to it as your first post in this forum?

kerry · #8 05-01-2012, 09:26 AM

I'll add a couple of things in response to that propaganda. First off, the NYT reporter is based in Istanbul. Secondly, the byline on the story includes a Turk as well as a non-Turk so the nonsense about not being familiar with Turkish society needs to be put aside. Notice the opposing viewpoints that Carry tries to get us to choose between: The Gulen movement is either dangerous or a successful social movement. He then details its successes, avoiding the crucial option that a movement can be both successful and dangerous.
I'm pretty sure that Carry's post is a result of a program written by one of the many very smart computer scientists in the gulen movement that scans the net for posts about Gulen which are not praising him.

pj67coll · #9 05-01-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kerry

I'm pretty sure that Carry's post is a result of a program written by one of the many very smart computer scientists in the gulen movement that scans the net for posts about Gulen which are not praising him.

No doubt. As soon as criticism is detected an alert is sent to a minion like this carry carachter to run interference.

- Peter.

kerry · #10 05-01-2012, 10:06 AM

Damn, that post has my dander up. You know that the poster found us by searching on Gulen and NYT and didn't get here as a result of his interest in Mercedes. He doesn't even realize it's a Mercedes website. For those wanting to know more about the movement's techniques, you can access some insider information at WikiLeaks. They leaked e-mails from Stratfor , a private intelligence agency. You can see references to Turkey and Gulen in a number of the subject lines. If you click on them you can get somd more info. Notice that even Stratfor's expert on turkey realizes she has been given a 'handler' within the movement to keep an eye on her.

The Global Intelligence Files - List of Releases

pj67coll · #11 05-01-2012, 10:52 AM

So how come you wound up with a "handler" Kerry?

- Peter.

Carleton Hughes · #12 05-01-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pj67coll

So how come you wound up with a "handler" Kerry?

- Peter.

A valid query. Unfortunately one that cannot be answered with anything but bemused mendacity by the subject under sway. The wire-pullers in the know always fearful of some member "giving the game away" and veering off course from the narrow, circumscribed path which is set out for the simple minded and insecure to follow.

All religious organisations are of the same kidney whether they call themselves scientologists, neo-ressurectionists, shiites, sunnis, roman catholics, pentecostalists...et, cet, ad nauseum.

Any "movement", particularly those of a spiritual bent are all about control, which lest we forget, is twin brother to power. That's all it's about....controlling people.......and by doing so $$$$$$$ are nice fringe benefits.

davidmash · #13 05-01-2012, 11:57 AM

OK, that is kind of spooky. I know everything on the net is out there for everyone to see, but when Kerry said a handler will be here soon and voila one shows up a few days later. Weird. I definitely think at least in this case that Carry person proved Kerry was 100% correct about this movement. I'd bet we will not hear from them again. This is not your average forum of idiots.

kerry · #14 05-01-2012, 02:23 PM

Damn spooky indeed, especially in terms of other things I've been told about the movement. How I got a 'handler' is a long story. It began when I had a student in one of my classes who was a member of the movement. I ended up traveling to Turkey with them and being involved in quite a few other events. I don't want to go into detail in a public forum, especially on this thread.

davidmash · #15 05-01-2012, 03:02 PM

So you 'know' this handler?