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  #1  
Old 05-31-2012, 01:20 PM
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Is Wisconsin a bad sign for Democrats?

Well, the unions poured $Millions into Wisconsin to unseat Gov. Walker. They also filled the air waves with fear--fear of lost jobs--fear of busting the unions.
None of those fears seem to have been truthful. No loss of union jobs. No union busting. Just simple accountability. Good governance.

In fact its so bad for the dems that they have pulled the advertising $$$$ --almost like they are conceding that Walker will not be recalled.

Wisconsin is solidly BLUE, and expected to be in the Obama column. Is that still a valid conclusion? Can't wait to see the election results next week.

If the Tea Party can affect an election in solid blue Wisconsin, what does that predict for the rest of the country. ( University of Wisconsin at Madison is still a liberal bastion, so the state may still go to Obama, but does it make you hope or fear?

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Old 05-31-2012, 01:27 PM
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I sure hope your suspicion is correct. Wait a minute! Am I allowed to post an opinion like that?
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:30 PM
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I sure hope your suspicion is correct. Wait a minute! Am I allowed to post an opinion like that?
I have no idea, but it makes for interesting conversation.
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Old 05-31-2012, 02:47 PM
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Other than those who seem to think the sun rises with Obama and sets with the unions, there aren't many who disagree with Walker's intent. Some are more upset about how he went about it, it seems. Myself, I was more disgusted with the dems for taking a vacation to try their BS blockade, and if they take a bath on this recall as well, so much the better.

Analogously, while I am not a fan of Obamacare (nor much of the rest of his administration), what galls me the most is the back-door way in which this sweeping legislation was passed. Reach across the aisle, my eye (though anyone who really believed all the blathering promises needs to find some manner of reality).
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:34 PM
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Karl Rove once said that winning an election was not the only goal. Getting the other guy to spend money they didn't need to spend was also a great victory, and, according to Rove himself, the whole 'Monica' thing with Clinton was one of the things Rove was talking about. Money spent by Democrats on that was money they did not have to spend on other races.

So far the GOP has blown $25,000,000 on Walker and that is money they will not have in November. Walker has also helped himself to some of that cash for his legal defense fund. There is a case of Voter Fraud pending against him that the state has agreed to postpone until after the election since any trial could not have been finished by election day.

Charges will likely be filed soon after the election no matter if Walker wins or loses. A few of those involved in this affair have already pled guilty and are expected to roll over on Walker.

All in all this is interesting to watch.
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Old 05-31-2012, 03:57 PM
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I'll agree that public employee unions present a problem. OTOH, I'm not impressed with Walker's approach to the issue. I agree with Maddow and others whose take is that union busing is a major goal of Rs and this is a place they want to make a stand.

Unions can be abusive of power but so can corporations and other titans of industry. Unions are one way to achieve some small measure of balance and accountability.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:14 PM
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I'll agree that public employee unions present a problem. OTOH, I'm not impressed with Walker's approach to the issue. I agree with Maddow and others whose take is that union busing is a major goal of Rs and this is a place they want to make a stand.

Unions can be abusive of power but so can corporations and other titans of industry. Unions are one way to achieve some small measure of balance and accountability.
Don't let facts get in the way of your rant.

Walker has not made any moves toward union busting---just trying to balance his budget.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Pooka View Post
Karl Rove once said that winning an election was not the only goal. Getting the other guy to spend money they didn't need to spend was also a great victory, and, according to Rove himself, the whole 'Monica' thing with Clinton was one of the things Rove was talking about. Money spent by Democrats on that was money they did not have to spend on other races.

So far the GOP has blown $25,000,000 on Walker and that is money they will not have in November. Walker has also helped himself to some of that cash for his legal defense fund. There is a case of Voter Fraud pending against him that the state has agreed to postpone until after the election since any trial could not have been finished by election day.

Charges will likely be filed soon after the election no matter if Walker wins or loses. A few of those involved in this affair have already pled guilty and are expected to roll over on Walker.

All in all this is interesting to watch.
OTOH, the gang in Chicago is worried sick that the R's, R superpacs and "independent" R-leaning superpacs will blow them and their superpacs out of the water when push comes to shove. Estimates I've heard tossed about were that combined they will out spend the Dems by a few hundred million... each camp's total exceeding a billion naturally.
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Old 05-31-2012, 04:59 PM
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Other than those who seem to think the sun rises with Obama and sets with the unions, there aren't many who disagree with Walker's intent. Some are more upset about how he went about it, it seems. Myself, I was more disgusted with the dems for taking a vacation to try their BS blockade, and if they take a bath on this recall as well, so much the better.

Analogously, while I am not a fan of Obamacare (nor much of the rest of his administration), what galls me the most is the back-door way in which this sweeping legislation was passed. Reach across the aisle, my eye (though anyone who really believed all the blathering promises needs to find some manner of reality).
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Old 05-31-2012, 05:07 PM
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Does anyone see unlimited annonymous spending, as undertaken in this particular race by both parties, as being a good thing for the electorate?
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Old 05-31-2012, 06:37 PM
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Does anyone see unlimited annonymous spending, as undertaken in this particular race by both parties, as being a good thing for the electorate?
That is a decent part of what I can't stand about the two party system anyway. Two groups whose common goal has nothing to do with rights or the good of the country, it's all about staying in power so you can get more money. The only difference is the rhetoric and those to whom they pander.




(Not that I have an opinion, mind you...)
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Can't Know View Post
Other than those who seem to think the sun rises with Obama and sets with the unions, there aren't many who disagree with Walker's intent. Some are more upset about how he went about it, it seems. Myself, I was more disgusted with the dems for taking a vacation to try their BS blockade, and if they take a bath on this recall as well, so much the better.

Analogously, while I am not a fan of Obamacare (nor much of the rest of his administration), what galls me the most is the back-door way in which this sweeping legislation was passed. Reach across the aisle, my eye (though anyone who really believed all the blathering promises needs to find some manner of reality).

Yes and the trashing of the Wisconsin Capitol building by the union people was disgusting.
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Old 05-31-2012, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Can't Know View Post
That is a decent part of what I can't stand about the two party system anyway. Two groups whose common goal has nothing to do with rights or the good of the country, it's all about staying in power so you can get more money. The only difference is the rhetoric and those to whom they pander.




(Not that I have an opinion, mind you...)

I totally agree, although I word it and think of it a little differently. My take is that politiicians in BOTH parties are willing to do whatever it takes, selling the American people down the river with no conscience, just so they can win another term.

I'm sure there are a few exceptions to this, but darn few.
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  #14  
Old 05-31-2012, 08:28 PM
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Does anyone see unlimited annonymous spending, as undertaken in this particular race by both parties, as being a good thing for the electorate?
Political advertisers need to work, too.

The spending is based on the idea that advertising sways voters. Maybe the voters will throw the politicians a curve. Somebody is going to be disappointed that their spending "didn't work".
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:57 PM
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the super pacs should not be allowed. we should be able to see where the money supporting candidates is coming from.

Anybody not believing the busting unions is on the R agenda is either disingenious or out of the loop.

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