Yup. This whole thing was O'Bummer's idea from start to finish. The oil companies tried to tell him it wouldn't work, but NOOOooo, the chosen one knew better. :mad:

so question-

Reading through, this is a buried pipeline right? what are the homeowners rights to the land after the line is installed?

Im curious, Larry you say you have 3 lines across your property, are they sectioned off from the rest of your land? can you use the surface above it?

Lets say I was a farmer, can I continue to farm over the pipeline location?

Im curious how that works out

Most of the contracts I have seen on this do lay out what can and cannot be done with the land above line and with-in so many feet of it. The term always used for this is not an easement but a Right of Way. However, the contract might read 'easement'.

You cannot put a structure on top of the ROW, nor a concrete road or slab, nor a power pole. Before crossing the ROW with a line of your own, like a water line, you have to contact the company and get their permission. They usually want to be there when you do this so you don't dig up the line.

You can farm on top of it if you wish, but if you hit the line while plowing the field it is your problem and you get to pay for all the repairs.

I have seen where a slab made of Pavestones was allowed since they can be taken up and replaced again. A good rule of thumb is nothing can be built on top of the line in case it ever needs to be dug up again. A dirt road would be allowed, but not a concrete one.

It all depends on how your contract is written up.

so they pay you for the value of the land they alter to install the line, and do they own it at that time?

Or are you sort of 'grandfathered' into being able to use it and treat it as your property, but do they actually hold the lease?

From what it sounds like, apart from the loss of trees along the route, the property can still be used by LB for personal use with some limitations?

The easement now belongs to the pipeline company. They take it from us at gunpoint for a token price whether we like it or not. If part of it has sentimental value they could care less. They tear it all to hell, put clay in place of topsoil, leave it as rough as a mine field, put in cheap fence after tearing out WAY more fence than they need to, they let livestock go all over the place during construction and don't even help round them up again, they literally crap on the ground during the project, they ALWAYS tear up land beyond their work space even though they are not supposed to, if you put grass in place or spend time and money smoothing it out, WHEN they come in to fix leaks they tear it all to hell and you have to straighten it out again and replant, it takes five years or more to get the ground fertile enough to grow grass again and you NEVER get it smooth enough to be able to drive across on a tractor so you can cut, rake and bail hay.

Folks, PLEASE don't insult me by saying that this is just no big deal and that I should just shut up and bear it. Until you have been through this you have NO idea what sort of emotion and frustration is involved. As I said, I would not wish something like this even on my peachparts tormentors.

Hey, man, look on the bright side: at least they're not putting up an ICBM silo on your land, turning it into an instant target, like they did in the 60ies.

Is it better to ship petroleum via pipeline, steamship, rail or truck? Are there any other ways to ship oil? Which one of these methods has the best safety record? Worst record? How would you like to have petroleum sent to your neighborhood?

(Assuming that people outside of the geographic area of production might have a use for it, of course.)

in the tank of a mb.;)

Try something different Larry
 

Well, to me, all of this ^^^^ is pretty ridiculous. Life changes, you move on.

This yet another example of why "CONSERVATIVES" never change.

I used to own a place in San Francisco, and now I don't.

It to me is perhaps one of the coolest places there is, to live.

I could set you up in an incredible apartment with a killer view in this amazing lovely and lively city, and liveable town with a drop dead view (like I had).

I rented for years, before that, and nothing wrong with renting, even some millionaires do it who are among the approx. 70% who do, and love it. No eminent domain worries, no property tax, no maintenance problems, ---- toilet busted at midnight? Dial dial ring ring, to the landlord, "Come and fix it." Done.

World class culture, cuisine, entertainment, sailing, perfect weather, ect. There are many reasons it's such a highly desired place to live.

9/2007 with cmac; pic taken at secret SF vista point -- by Dee8go:

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...JimB091207.jpg

MBCA National meet on Treasure Island, dinner in the City (background after)

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1428.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1425.jpg

Shopping on 24th street

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1021.jpg

Parking is easy if you do it right.

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1020.jpg

Not so much if you DON'T.

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1022.jpg

SF has friendly girls; and friendly dogs!!

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1017.jpg

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...1/IMG_1018.jpg

Park Merced student and senior rentals near SF State Univ.

http://i353.photobucket.com/albums/r...rced_court.jpg

Practically, if you buy a historically listed building in a major city, you have no eminent domain worries as well -- you do gain other worries, like having to deal with a historical commission as well as a building inspector for outside repairs. If you're renting, you DO pay property tax, or rather your landlord does and passes it through to you.

This being said, I'd rent vs buy in SF as well. Very few condos in the city proper, so very little property below $500k is available, plus if you own a building, virtually everything is rent-controlled and landlord-tenant laws are more insane than NYC. In short, difficult to impossible to make a good profit as a landlord unless you're paying cash for the building.

I consider ALL property to be an investment, even that which I live in i.e. I want to be able to walk away for a few months, rent it out at break-even or a profit, and be able to travel without worries.

Well, if we were looking for a ready apologist for fascist aggression; we've found him.

Mission accomplished.

No need. If you want to go over the heads of the pipeline companies then contact The Texas Railroad Commission in Austin and tell them about the situation. They have the legal power to review all the X-Rays and to determine if the welds were made properly and inspected properly.

And if they suspect corners were cut then woe be unto the pipeline company that did the poor work.

You may wonder if you will be sticking your neck out on this and the answer is no. The Railroad Commission has many jobs and protecting the public is one of them.

If you are in Oklahoma then you would contact the Oklahoma Corporation Commission. They do the same thing the RR Commission does in Texas.

You can also contact the PHMSA folks in Washington, DC. These guys are a part of the Department of Transportation and are also mixed up with Homeland Security, but the bottom line to any landowner is if you want them to investigate suspected shoddy work they are more than happy to do so. Pipeline companies know this and do not want to get on the wrong side of any of these outfits.

And let me be clear: They will look into what you ask them to look into. If they find that everything was done to spec then they will let you know. If they find that records were just pencil whipped they will come down on the pipeline companies in a very big way.

As to the matter of Natural Gas Line leaks.....

This is an area that is outside of my expertise. Crude oils, refined products and even water lines I know about, but Natural Gas Lines are a world unto themselves.

I have heard people say that leaks on an NG line are not as bad as crude and products leaks, but that is only from a clean-up standpoint. In other words: With NG (Methane) being lighter than air there is nothing to clean up. It all just floats away.

NG leaks are usually spotted by a die off of the grass that is growing above it.

An NGL line (Natural Gas Liquids) is not to be confused with an NG line since many of the components of NGL are heavier than air. Propane and Butane both have low boiling points, like about 7 psi, so if a lot of it gets out at once it will float over to a low spot and hang there like a fog. This is about as deadly as it can get since it only takes a spark to light the entire pool off at once. A blast like this took place about 20 years ago and it was heard 60 miles away.

The real BTU packed stuff, like Ethane, boils off at about 880 psi in a pure form, so unless you live at the bottom of the sea it presents almost no danger if released since it vapors off so quickly.

Larry.... Check the signs the pipelines have posted on your property. There should be one at every fence crossing. Call the number listed there and ask them to have someone contact you about just what is running through the lines. They likely will not tell you over the phone as the person who picks it up will be far too busy for a long, or even a short, conversation, but they will have an Operator get with you so you will know what is what.

And don't worry about being too demanding with them. They need you and depend on you to report trouble to them, so if you can cage them out of a hat or even a gate at a fence line......

Remember: At this point they need you more than you need them.

well, i certainly empathize with you, Larry.

sounds like you have beautiful place there, and that you're getting screwed.

Pipeline is by far the safest, followed by tanker or barge. Rail is next and then truck.

One bad thing about truck is that there is ALWAYS a lot of damage if there is an accident. A bridge is ruined and must be rebuilt, a lot of traffic is tied up and cars in the area are burned up, too.