Toyota Drops Plans for Electric Vehicles - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

retmil46 · #1 09-26-2012, 01:22 PM

This from the same guy who helped develop and bring to market the Prius hybrid -

Toyota drops plan for widespread sales of electric car | Reuters

He's essentially saying the available batteries just can't cut it - same thing I've been saying the past few years after my own experience with owning and operating an electric vehicle.

Air&Road · #2 09-26-2012, 01:39 PM

SURELY this is a misprint. Electric vehicles are the greatest thing since someone knocked the corners off the square wheel to make it sort of round! I KNOW this is so because our Anointed President has used BILLIONS of our own money to make it so. He TOLD us so!

tbomachines · #3 09-26-2012, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Air&Road

SURELY this is a misprint. Electric vehicles are the greatest thing since someone knocked the corners off the square wheel to make it sort of round! I KNOW this is so because our Anointed President has used BILLIONS of our own money to make it so. He TOLD us so!

Obama rant. Totally unexpected and very good contribution to discussion. Well done.

engatwork · #4 09-26-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Takeshi Uchiyamada, Toyota's vice chairman and the engineer who oversees vehicle development

I imagine this guy is pretty keen in regards to the automobile business.

retmil46 · #5 09-26-2012, 02:05 PM

Remember the old saying - there are none so devout as the converted.

For a few years there, I WAS one of the converted that believed in the viability of electric vehicles.

What changed my mind was actually owning, operating, and maintaining one - real world experience proved the blue-sky claims made by the proponents to be wishful thinking.

Want one for an (expensive) hobby to have something to tinker with? Sure, knock yourself out. Need a dependable vehicle that's not limited to 40 miles per day and can get you to work every day? Go buy a real car.

But there are still those who are such fervent believers in all-elecric vehicles, that they would all but crucify you if you even suggested something like adding a propane or kerosene fired heater to their electric wonders just to keep warm in winter - I know, I used to associate with many of them - and when I made such a suggestion on a EV forum several years back, they all but broke out the pitchforks and the tar and feathers on me.

To them, it's almost akin to an ideaology or religion.

tbomachines · #6 09-26-2012, 02:20 PM

I think there is potential there as technology progresses. Better batteries and better ways to harness power. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are essentially electric vehicles too, remember. At this point, not sure if it is really worth it for an everyday vehicle but they're getting there.

engatwork · #7 09-26-2012, 02:20 PM

lol

Wonder which car company will be the first to bring out the turbodiesel electric hybrid car?

Benz Fan · #8 09-26-2012, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by retmil46

Remember the old saying - there are none so devout as the converted.

For a few years there, I WAS one of the converted that believed in the viability of electric vehicles.

What changed my mind was actually owning, operating, and maintaining one - real world experience proved the blue-sky claims made by the proponents to be wishful thinking.

Want one for an (expensive) hobby to have something to tinker with? Sure, knock yourself out. Need a dependable vehicle that's not limited to 40 miles per day and can get you to work every day? Go buy a real car.

But there are still those who are such fervent believers in all-elecric vehicles, that they would all but crucify you if you even suggested something like adding a propane or kerosene fired heater to their electric wonders just to keep warm in winter - I know, I used to associate with many of them - and when I made such a suggestion on a EV forum several years back, they all but broke out the pitchforks and the tar and feathers on me.

To them, it's almost akin to an ideaology or religion.

Did you buy a Fisker, a Volt or a Nissan Leaf?

SwampYankee · #9 09-26-2012, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

lol

Wonder which car company will be the first to bring out the turbodiesel electric hybrid car?

They would certainly be even more fuel efficient.

Heck. I'd be happy with turbo diesel variants, period! I'm not entirely sold on the new VW TDI's and certainly unable to be in the market for an Audi, Benz or BMW diesel. I keep hearing they're coming from other manufacturers. Maybe next year for the Cruze? Then a couple years to see if they prove to be a decent platform?

MTI · #10 09-26-2012, 04:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

lol

Wonder which car company will be the first to bring out the turbodiesel electric hybrid car?

Daimler already has the DiesOtto motor.

The testing and demonstration vehicles include a long-wheel based Mercedes-Benz S-Class fitted with a 19 bhp (14 kW) electric motor to hide the transition from spark to compression power, and the engine has been installed in the Mercedes-Benz F700 concept car shown at the 2007 Frankfurt Motorshow

Hatterasguy · #11 09-26-2012, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Benz Fan

Did you buy a Fisker, a Volt or a Nissan Leaf?

Or that really good looking new Tesla sedan.

Its a good looking car with up to a 300 mile range.

catmandoo62 · #12 09-26-2012, 11:54 PM

just don't brick the 40k battery!

retmil46 · #13 09-27-2012, 02:25 AM

They've been trying for 150 years to come up with a practical AFFORDABLE battery with enough cycle life to last for years, and enough capacity to give a vehicle decent range, without literally having to haul around a ton of batteries. Hasn't happened yet, and despite Energy Sec Chu's promises, I don't see anything on the horizon that comes close either.

IMO, chemical storage batteries are a dead end as far as EV's are concerned. It's going to take some other type of energy storage, ie flywheels or supercapacitors, to make the necessary breakthrough in energy density/capacity vs volume and weight - and that can be mass-produced at an affordable price.

Fuel cells are another dead end, as far as using them to power a mass-produced POV. Barring an unforseen breakthrough (IMO far more possible, but still remote, than with chemical batteries), given the materials they're made of, they'll never be cheap enough to be affordable to any but those in the class of Mitt Romney's business associates.

And as far as recharging - even with an EV such as mine, with only a 40 mile range and 12 kwh battery pack, and a 240 V 50 amp outlet, it takes HOURS to recharge the pack. Imagine trying to refill the fuel tank on a 300D thru a soda straw - actually a pretty close analogy.

Air&Road · #14 09-27-2012, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by engatwork

lol

Wonder which car company will be the first to bring out the turbodiesel electric hybrid car?

MB?

Botnst · #15 09-27-2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbomachines

I think there is potential there as technology progresses. Better batteries and better ways to harness power. Hydrogen fuel cell cars are essentially electric vehicles too, remember. At this point, not sure if it is really worth it for an everyday vehicle but they're getting there.

Wut he say,....

I'd buy an electric or hybrid if I didn't have to make weekend 500 mi round-trip visits to my elderly in-laws and mom. Right now I live about 4 mi from work and legal speed tops out at 40 mph. I also need a kick-ass air conditioner.

I agree with you about fuel cells. NASA has been using them since the later 1960's early 1970's IIRC. Fueling the thing might be a bit dicey though. Hydrogen has some itty-bitty, very slippery molecules. Need some awfully well sealed connectors that joe sixpack could operate without too much threat to life and limb.