Milk Subsidy? - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

raymr · #1 12-28-2012, 10:20 AM

I saw a quick news blip last night that said if the fiscal cliff isn't resolved, government milk subsidies will go away and the price will go up to $8 per gallon. That sounds like a lot of sour milk to me.

cmbdiesel · #2 12-28-2012, 10:25 AM

Guess I'll learn to drink my coffee black...

Not sure why there is a milk subsidy in the first place.

Maybe this fiscal cliff will be good for us, expose all the BS programs which have been sucking our economy dry which most people likely know nothing about.

MTI · #3 12-28-2012, 10:26 AM

Udderly revolting.

elchivito · #4 12-28-2012, 10:52 AM

Farm bill. Google is your friend.

dynalow · #5 12-28-2012, 10:56 AM

Yes. Farm Bill. Separate problem.

Got milk? Prices could soar in 2013 - Video on NBCNews.com

SwampYankee · #6 12-28-2012, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Maybe this fiscal cliff will be good for us, expose all the BS programs which have been sucking our economy dry which most people likely know nothing about.

That's where I'm at. Even if they're not sucking us dry, just bleeding us slowly.

Re: Milk Prices-I overheard a guy at the grocery store complaining about how those rich, greedy dairy farmers were going to charge $7-8/gal. and how the hell were we supposed to be able to afford that? Tell them to quit being so greedy.

Knowing that was going to be a no-win conversation, I bit my tongue and kept walking. I know several dairy farmers. Rich and greedy are the last terms I would use to describe them. None of them are in it for the money because there's no money in it! The only reason that milk is currently $3-4/gal. is because of the subsidy, not through any Price-Cost=Profit equation, and that tidbit would be totally lost on the guy.

That said, we got through 3-4 gallons a week. I guess that change jar will be earmarked.

cmbdiesel · #7 12-28-2012, 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elchivito

Farm bill. Google is your friend.

Google is tool.... elchivito is friend....

So, this price concern is based on the idea that dairy farmers will sell their milk to the government instead of their normal distributors because they will get more money for it, then the government will scuttle it's prices to get rid of the milk....

Wouldn't the farmers be better served to continue selling at their current prices to their current distributors?
Do we believe they would screw themselves for a short term gain?

Why is the government involved in milk prices anyway??

barry12345 · #8 12-28-2012, 12:28 PM

Up here in eastern Canada even with subsities milk is about 8.50 a gallon in normal supermarkets. The volume is comparative as it is four litres versus 3.78 liters for the american gallon? We have two places that retail it for 6.90 a gallon as a price leader. It is far cheaper in central Canada. Hamburger is approaching 5.00 per pound now here.

The thing about escallating prices is that you tend to adjust to them after their initial implementation. Or your attention is taken away by some other item in the cost of existance or living rising fast as well.

I always used to throw a few gallons of milk in my trunk when returning from the states. I would estimate that overall because of the increasing costs of meat, general groceries, and really almost everything else to some degree. Over the last year that our cost of living has increased at least ten percent regardless of what government statistics claim as a lower figure. For a person financing their way though life it would seem less as their primary costs that consume a lot of their income would be fixed in nature. Those being morgage, car payments, lines of credit and such.

Dinosaurs like myself do not provide much stimulation to the economy in comparison. We are still watching a 36 inch sony flat glass television for example as it has no salvage value and is still in perfect operational condition. Probably until a 50" high definition crosses my path at a price I cannot pass by. It is not that we cannot afford a large flat screen or anything else or are tight. If we were tight we would not give away as much each year as we do. Helping others in the family down on their luck through no fault of their own is one way for example. So it is simply the principal of it all instead. I also will leave money on the table if the seller is really in need rather than eating them alive sometimes.

I have no ideal of exactly how much this overall pattern of credit is crimping people in general but it has to be having some effect. I have had a palatable concern that many may be substidizing their fundemental existance on essential items with credit. That to me is a very dangerous pattern for the individual if true. To get off the treadmill that the majority of us started life with once we grew up should still be a decent objective. Not speeding it up as well as increasing the run duration.

I have no ideal how much we spend on groceries as we are going to eat anyways. The newer profit centres of surcharges are another dangerous component that is becoming well entrenched in the economy in my opinion. This overall credit based society factor is unbalancing things in my opinion. People seem not aware at all of or care about overall costs as much as simply if they can afford the payments. When the average housing prices exceeded the replacement costs for awhile there I had to wonder if people where asleep at the switch.

In this economy all I do is watch to make sure that cash flow exceeds expendatures. Old money is not a yardstick as much anymore. Not owing money does help I suppose but may be penalized by the rampant printing of money at federal government levels. I know it is going to change money or the concept of it over time if it already has not. Actually in my opinion it already has.

I worked the current system just a few days before christmas to buy an eleven month old toyota corolla with under five thousand miles on it for the wife.

I simply told them they cannot offer the car with zero financing and this meant most people that finance cars would not buy it. New with no interest will be cheaper or the same price. You only do this to keep everyone on the same page. After some protracted negotiations we settled at 13,250 for the car. It has all the options the wife likes and is spotless. Toyota dealers do not discount new around here very much. Their used prices make no practical sense at all. This was at a hyundia dealer.

So someone took a sixty five hundred dollar hit for those less than five K miles. Plus of course the repeat sales tax was substantially cheaper. Another surprise they got was me hammering any surcharges at the dealer to death. It almost indicates to me that perhaps ninety five percent of auto aquisitons or more. Other than on really older cars are paper transactions today.

I want to see the economy flourish but not at the expense of making it unlivable for the average family. Credit out of control or too loose as it curently is by necessity can acomplish this.

Of course I had to write a finance contract for that car as they demand their rebate on any used deal now. Simply no cash deals without a serious surcharge now with them. So you do not even mention cash as a possibility. Still it is an open contract and I will pay it off on friday. Already tried as soon as getting home but the contract was not in the system yet.. To the average person financing these add ons only represent a few dollars more per week. So sellers have no problem ramming them down their throats. As the sales manager said when I picked up the car.

You really should not be driving this car off the dealership property for what you paid as it is basically still a new car for all intents and purposes. I simply responded that I did my homework from the start. It was a consignment car from a leasing pool that was returned from a one year lease. Not traded into your dealership by an older guy as you suggested. I suspect the lease holder took extra precautions not to even let a stone chip or door ding ocur as he would be aware it would be on him or her.

Thats is also why you could not produce the ownership yet as you have not paid it out. I also suspected your return was based on the speed of both moving the car out and may have been some fixed percentage of the selling price. The only thing you had in it was the 160.00 first oil change that was not due yet you did it. I had eight hours total spread over two days of negotiations in it. So in a way we both prevailed. If you had just taken my first offer that you called insane you would have had more money. Plus saved me some time.

Some of us old guys are not dead in the water yet if you felt we were. The main thing to me is it takes the pressure off of what to give the wife for christmas at a price I can live with. She had been sugesting she would like a newer car and was quite capable of going out and buying one if I drug my feet too long. The only thing that probably held her back is she intuitly knows she cannot get the prices I get on consumer items and dump the spread into the granchildrens educational funds. I try to implant into younger guys that it is not how much you make as much as how you dispose of it. Generally I am forced to teach this by example.

What is this all about? You have to find ways to compansate for increasing costs or raise your income. Milk prices will rise regardless of what occurs. So will most other things. Actually it is almost gauranteed with the money presses rolling steady since 2008 and easy credit. If you can up your income is fine. Most cannot by much so they should learn a new compensating approach before they are squeezed. Many on this site probably use variations of my approaches or better. After enough experience you get good at it. Necessity rather than the smarts is what can drive it. I know I am not that smart but still get along well enough.

Benz Dr. · #9 12-28-2012, 03:18 PM

It`s true, US dairy frmers get squat for their milk.

I`m sure the idea being that it makes it more affordable for the general consumer. The short fall is topped up by some sort of subsidy. Corporate giants like the system but to smaller farmers I`m sure it`s vital.

In Canada we have a supply managment system under article 11 of GATT. We are one of the few, if not the only country, to use this. We only produce as much milk as is needed for our domestic supply. We don`t over produce nor do we under produce. A board consisting of producers, consumers, dairy operations, retail operations, and ministry staff set the prices for milk so everyone has a say. As the cost of production goes up, the price of milk goes up. If the cost of production goes down, which it will from time to time, the price of milk goes down and producer has to find ways to become more effcient. It should be noted that for the most part, the price of food has increased more to do with tansportation costs and less to do with farm gate prices.
Producers have to buy milk quota in order to produce - I`m sure it`s exspensive. There are no tax payer subsidies given to dairy farmers that I know of. If you don`t consume dairy products here your costs are about zero. Consumers pay a much higher percentage of the total cost of production than almost any other product and most of that money is paid directly back to dairymen as it should be. Of course, consumers always believe their getting ripped off. I guess they could always milk their own cow twice a day and pay for the feed pluss other exspenses. It wouldn`t be cheaper.

In the US you pay even if you don`t consume anything that looks like dairy product. US producers are eager to swamp our markets with cheap milk and I suppose our consumers are only too willing to buy it. However, we don`t use any hormones to make our cows produce more milk which is common practice in the Sates - it`s very illegal here and the system is constantly being monitered.

Consumers usually only worry about prices.......

Skippy · #10 12-28-2012, 04:24 PM

About hormones: they're still legal here, but falling out of use. Most less processed dairy products you'll find around here come with the following (or similar) verbage on the package:

Quote:

THIS MILK IS FROM COWS NOT TREATED WITH rbST

and under or next to that, usually in smaller type:

Quote:

THE FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION HAS DETERMINED THERE IS NO SIGNIFICANT DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MILK FROM rbST TREATED COWS AND NON-rbST TREATED COWS

Anyway, I use about two gallons of milk a month. If eight bucks a gallon is the true market clearing price, I'm fine with that.