I have never been able to get a residential loan on rental property.

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[SIGPIC] Diesel loving autocrossing grandpa Architect. 08 Dodge 3/4 ton with Cummins & six speed; I have had about 35 benzes. I have a 39 Studebaker Coupe Express pickup in which I have had installed a 617 turbo and a five speed manual.[SIGPIC]

..I also have a 427 Cobra replica with an aluminum chassis.

In my immediate area during the bubble, investors were PART of the problem, but not all of it, or even most of it. I watched family after family refinance and pull their inflated equity out of their properties with nearly free-interest teaser ARMs. They did this on the advice of mtg. brokers, who convinced them the sky was the limit on their values. Being able to almost magically pull say 150K equity out of a house valued at 250 that you owe 100K on was pretty hard to resist for somebody making 20 bucks an hour.

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You're a daisy if you do.
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84 Euro 240D 4spd. 220.5k sold
04 Honda Element AWD
1985 F150 XLT 4x4, 351W with 270k miles, hay hauler
1997 Suzuki Sidekick 4x4
1993 Toyota 4wd Pickup 226K and counting

There may be a bubble in Denver, but that doesn't apply to the whole country. There are a lot of places where residential rental property can cash-flow quite well.

My experience is in an historic, downtown district. The return on apartments is nowhere near the return you can get on commercial space.

Very well stated.

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"Time's never wasted when you're wasted all the time"

Years back, I recall a professor that once said "look around you...only a few of you are winners while the rest are losers - and that's the world of finance".

That was probably the single most important lesson I learned in college.

Point is, not everyone should be a home-owner, especially if they need all kinds of gov't assistance to get into a home they can barely afford.

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"Time's never wasted when you're wasted all the time"

Yeah, downtown yields suck in larger cities. Have done for the last 15+ years, IMHO. Try a more suburban area - yields are better even in "walkable" suburban areas.

Don't blame the brokers. Blame the amathematical folks who took the loans. Blame the educational system for not teaching them what every adult should know.

That's correct!!!! Somebody has to rent those houses to people. Investors.

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1984 300SD Orient Red/ Palomino
1989 560SEC
2016 Mazda 6 6 speed manual
1995 Ford F-150 reg cab 4.9 5speed manual

Rent. Save up their money until they can have a reasonable income to mortgage ratio , about 30-37% at least, and pay off credit card debt, and forget about the new BMW, trips to Bermuda on a cruise ship, season tix to their winning sports team and all that stuff.

OWNING a home to live in is not some god given or constitutional right, last I heard.

If it means that much to you, why not try a lease option or something?

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1991 560 SEC AMG, 199k <---- 300 hp 10:1 ECE euro HV ...

1995 E 420, 170k "The Red Plum" (sold)

2015 BMW 535i xdrive awd Stage 1 DINAN, 6k, <----364 hp

1967 Mercury Cougar, 49k

2013 Jaguar XF, 20k <----340 hp Supercharged, All Wheel Drive (sold)

I asked because another poster was talking about their dislike for investors buying houses to use them as "cash machines" and calling it a racket. I was just making a point about investors,yes while making money, are providing a service to a lot of people in need. Indeed not a racket.

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1984 300SD Orient Red/ Palomino
1989 560SEC
2016 Mazda 6 6 speed manual
1995 Ford F-150 reg cab 4.9 5speed manual

Wait and save actually enabled people to watch houses escalate out of their affordability range in my time.

The problem with renting to me was you can pay for years and not even own the key. I also feel that owning a house can make retirement easier overall. For what it is worth for many people it is about the only way to save some money up in the acquired equity as well.

. Once the morgage is gone and in my opinion it should seldom exceed ten years or fifteen years maximum total term. Longer means you should examine the whole issue carefully as continuous property inflation is not guaranteed amoungst many other things. Like almost no signifigant equity for too long a period. Mind the much higher cost of getting it.

Plus you want a lot of years mortgage free to pay for kids education and hopefully put away some real money towards retirement.

There are guys like myself still around..The problem is finding the ones that are not so self centred and want to manipulate too large a slice of the pie for themselves.

Tell them what you want and for a nominal fee They will usually find it. If they do not find it the fee is returned. If a lot of money is not involved I used to put them on an agreement of sale. That's if they qualified by my standards and the need was there.

My credit check was easy. If you have reliably paid rent over the years you can deal with a similar amount as a mortgage or an agreement of sale as it gives the lender a much better and safer position. I put the money up when I was satisfied the excess value was in the property. No down payment required.

I could find the properties or the prospective agreement of sale individual could that met my requirements. A lot of people are in their own homes today and they are paid for because of my simple actions. This for people the banks steadily rejected years ago. I never lost a dime with any of those deals. I only had one refinance at horrible terms as a another lender wanted what would be their much reduced equity as security.

I had a lot of conditions in those agreements . Since by the sales agreement they could payout by lump sum at any time I guess it was unavoidable to get one of them. Refinancing home morgages to reduce equity was in it's infantcy in those days.

Plus not being greedy by nature I even made some money. I have no ideal of why I stopped doing it as the demand was great. Other than my time was in very high demand for many things. Even my bank who had watched the bank accounts and knew what I was doing. Did not want me to stop.

Why it worked so well and they could not duplicate it was the requirement to find real value out there. That takes effort plus connections most people will not expend or have. Combined with a lack of greed on my part.

Incidentally I will never be really rich as it has no interest for me or ever had. I feel good about never intentionally burning another person along the long road of life instead. It is so easy and common to do so it has become endemic today. In a strange way if you do for others it comes back possibly in an unpredictable fashion. From experience I have found this true.




































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I see no difference between buying all the food in a super market and then telling poorer people to pay whatever I ask in order to eat and buying houses and telling people who want to live in them they must pay me a fee as a middle man.

They were "distressed" because of the rules you dislike we're not in place.

Incorrect -- most of the distress didn't have to do with people borrowing 40-60% of the home's value as Hatty wants to do. It had to do with people borrowing 95-110% of the home's value.

50% loan-to-value is a very safe bet for the bank on a non-owner-occupied property, because they can easily foreclose and sell it for substantially more than the loan's value.