Toyota Is Fined $1.2 Billion for Concealing Safety Defects

[link]

Maybe this is why at the front of every pack of slow moving cars there is someone in a Toyota who lives to obstruct traffic...

Investigators discovered internal Toyota documents that acknowledged serious problems with its vehicles. They matched those documents with the company’s public statements, which played down the problems, according to one federal law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity.

“That’s when we knew for sure that this was a criminal fraud case,” the official said. “That’s what you’d call a smoking gun.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/20/business/toyota-reaches-1-2-billion-settlement-in-criminal-inquiry.html?ref=todayspaper&_r=0

[Air&Road]

Hmmm...., so then when will GM receive this same fine for their concealments?

Silly question though, the gubment with their GM involvement was competing with Toyota, so punishing their competitor made sense to them.

One more GOOD reason for the government to NOT be involved in private business.

[aklim]

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmmm...., so then when will GM receive this same fine for their concealments?

Silly question though, the gubment with their GM involvement was competing with Toyota, so punishing their competitor made sense to them.

One more GOOD reason for the government to NOT be involved in private business.

Sure they will. A light slap perhaps. But you're right. Govt should NOT be involved in business ESPECIALLY when they cannot conduct their business correctly as evidenced by the debt.

After all, who would feel confident if the judge could have an ax to grind in the trial?

[Idle]

I think the fine was for the criminal part of this, which was fraud, not the safety part. It is one this to be made aware of a problem, to start looking into it only to find it is a truly bad thing that you messed up on, and then to tell everyone 'Noting to see here. All's well'.

The GM problem is still under investigation. GM did take active steps to solve the problem and made a running design change, but did they ever issued a recall? This could be seen as denying the problem, but I don't think they ever came right out and said they had looked into it and found nothing.

To complicate matters the GM that was in business then is no longer around, in a legal sense, so the GM that currently exists could argue in court they had nothing to do with it. If I were the Judge I would not be impressed with this line of thought, but from a legal standpoint there are a lot of things companies do that I don't agree with.

The Toyota case took two years to figure out before any fines were levied. By the time any GM case is decided a new person will be President. If that person is a Republican and GM slides with no fines will it be because of politics or because GM did not commit a crime?

[aklim]

Originally Posted by Idle

If that person is a Republican and GM slides with no fines will it be because of politics or because GM did not commit a crime?

What would the difference be between a Republican and Democrat? IIRC, it was a Republican that was in office when the mess was started and a Democrat continued it so both parties have a hand in the issue. Could anyone say "Bush did not have a hand in pushing it."? I think not.

Once there is a governmental hand in it, how easy is it to disentangle oneself from the mess? Did Cheney break any laws concerning his past work and possible financial interest? That was in debate for a while. So, would YOU feel comfortable if we were opponents in a legal case and someone who might benefit from my winning were judge?

[Idle]

Originally Posted by aklim

What would the difference be between a Republican and Democrat? IIRC, it was a Republican that was in office when the mess was started and a Democrat continued it so both parties have a hand in the issue. Could anyone say "Bush did not have a hand in pushing it."? I think not.

Once there is a governmental hand in it, how easy is it to disentangle oneself from the mess? Did Cheney break any laws concerning his past work and possible financial interest? That was in debate for a while. So, would YOU feel comfortable if we were opponents in a legal case and someone who might benefit from my winning were judge?

Since you totally missed the point of my comment......

Republicans are quick to cry 'OBAMA' on, well, anything. GM comes through this thing with no fine? OBAMA! Please note that with Republicans facts are optional things that exist only to muddy the waters since everything that takes place in America is somehow controlled by OBAMA!

But if a Republican is President when the issue is settled and if GM receives no fine will Republicans scream that the fix was in? Nope. They would just say it was business as usual and the President had no hand in it.

Say, now that I think about it.... Has a Republican President ever done anything wrong? Not according to Republicans unless that President was Abe Lincoln and then, for reasons I have yet to understand, they seem to think he was some sort of monster for saving the country during the Civil War.

[cmbdiesel]

Originally Posted by Idle

Since you totally missed the point of my comment......

Republicans are quick to cry 'OBAMA' on, well, anything. GM comes through this thing with no fine? OBAMA! Please note that with Republicans facts are optional things that exist only to muddy the waters since everything that takes place in America is somehow controlled by OBAMA!

But if a Republican is President when the issue is settled and if GM receives no fine will Republicans scream that the fix was in? Nope. They would just say it was business as usual and the President had no hand in it.

Say, now that I think about it.... Has a Republican President ever done anything wrong? Not according to Republicans unless that President was Abe Lincoln and then, for reasons I have yet to understand, they seem to think he was some sort of monster for saving the country during the Civil War.

[INSIDIOUS]

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

Deep puddle or quick sand?

[aklim]

Originally Posted by Idle

Republicans are quick to cry 'OBAMA' on, well, anything. GM comes through this thing with no fine? OBAMA! Please note that with Republicans facts are optional things that exist only to muddy the waters since everything that takes place in America is somehow controlled by OBAMA!

But if a Republican is President when the issue is settled and if GM receives no fine will Republicans scream that the fix was in? Nope. They would just say it was business as usual and the President had no hand in it.

Say, now that I think about it.... Has a Republican President ever done anything wrong? Not according to Republicans unless that President was Abe Lincoln and then, for reasons I have yet to understand, they seem to think he was some sort of monster for saving the country during the Civil War.

How is anything different from a Democrat? Regardless of which party, the party faithful will never denounce that person or at least try to mitigate it. I'm a Republican and will never admit my person did any wrong or even if I had to, I'd say they deserved it or something. Same as any Democrat. Remember the "At least when Bill lied, nobody died" slogans? How about something more current. Eavesdropping. Do Democrats make a huge cry about Obama NOT STOPPING a bad thing he inherited? He's been President for how long already?

[cmbdiesel]

Originally Posted by INSIDIOUS

Deep puddle or quick sand?

That's kind of a personal question... but I'll ask her if I see her...

[Mölyapina]

I couldn't find a reference in the article -- what exactly were the serious defects in Toyotas that caused the UA? Anybody know?

Originally Posted by Air&Road

Hmmm...., so then when will GM receive this same fine for their concealments?

Silly question though, the gubment with their GM involvement was competing with Toyota, so punishing their competitor made sense to them.

One more GOOD reason for the government to NOT be involved in private business.

Pretty much exactly what I've felt about the whole thing. It seems like the media really jumped on Toyota, too. I remember people asking us for a while if we felt "safe" driving our Toyotas and then treating us like we were driving with no seatbelts or something . At least that's done with.

GM's 10-year-long cover-up has caused, what >100 deaths? How many did Toyota supposedly cause?

Next people will be asking if I feel safe driving the Buick. Oh, wait, that's right -- we're dealing with (ex-) Government Motors, so I'll be safe.

Originally Posted by cmbdiesel

^^

[Mistress]

along with the fine, they have to stand in "time out" until the 2016's come rolling out.

[Idle]

Originally Posted by aklim

How is anything different from a Democrat? Regardless of which party, the party faithful will never denounce that person or at least try to mitigate it. I'm a Republican and will never admit my person did any wrong or even if I had to, I'd say they deserved it or something. Same as any Democrat. Remember the "At least when Bill lied, nobody died" slogans? How about something more current. Eavesdropping. Do Democrats make a huge cry about Obama NOT STOPPING a bad thing he inherited? He's been President for how long already?

Why, yes, as a matter of fact Democrats have made a big deal about Obama continuing this program.

If you watched anything besides the right wing spin machines you would know this.

[aklim]

Originally Posted by Idle

Why, yes, as a matter of fact Democrats have made a big deal about Obama continuing this program.

If you watched anything besides the right wing spin machines you would know this.

As big as if Bush were in office? I think not. I won't say there is no noise but if Bush were in office, I doubt you can honestly say the noise would not be much louder.

Actually, I don't watch any "shows" that have a left or right slant. The only exception is Rush reruns when I am heavily drinking. I don't bother with PBS or any of the talk shows once they show too obvious a slant for that reason. Nice try.