PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/index.php)
-   Off-Topic Discussion (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Non Ethanol gas (http://www.peachparts.com/shopforum/showthread.php?t=373548)

OM617YOTA 11-17-2015 03:34 PM

Non Ethanol gas
 
Who has experience with this stuff? What has your experience been vs. E10 gas? MPG increase or decrease, power change?

pmckechnie 11-17-2015 05:46 PM

Yes, It is better than the E10 junk they say we need. I have tried it several times in my 84 500SEL over the last few years and would always see about a 10% increase in mpg and maybe a 10% increase in power and the engine is just more responsive. Now the problem, it cost more and is not easy to find if traveling.
For the last 2 years I have been using Sta-Bil Marine fuel stabilizer. About 1 oz every other fill up. I don't think it helps mileage or power, but it neutralizes the acid formed by the ethanol and water from condensation.
Most people think that the E in E10 is for ethanol, but it really is for EVIL. And EVIL10 is really bad stuff for the older cars. Manufacturers had to change some parts to withstand the ethanol.

PaulM

catmandoo62 11-17-2015 08:28 PM

non ethanol gas is all i use.and in everything.yes it is evil and i live in farm country where e10 e25 and e85 is everywhere.and my vw needs 91 octane and that is really hard to find without ethanol.

kerry 11-17-2015 08:56 PM

I use non-ethanol gas in my outboards.

Drago 11-17-2015 08:59 PM

Non ethanol is the best. If I ever get a gasser I'm gong to the track and fill some cans up just to cut the percentage down

tyl604 11-17-2015 09:47 PM

There is an app called Pure-Gas.org which will find non-ethanol, ie real gas stations in your area. There is ONE in Atlanta.

OM617YOTA 11-17-2015 10:27 PM

Thanks for the replies.

I've burned two tanks in the GTO. First tank saw a huge hit in mileage, second tank had mpg nearly back where it was on E10. Didn't notice any extra power, did seem slightly more responsive.

Not worth the 40% cost increase over E10 for me. I doubt I'll try it in the Mr2.

Small engines will definitely be getting it, though.

Mölyapina 11-17-2015 10:45 PM

I don't know, the MR2 might respond better to it then the GTO, since it was built pre-E10.

tyl604 11-18-2015 07:16 AM

Interesting. What year GTO; how about a pic. I would have thought you would get a lot more performance and some higher gas mileage with non-ethanol gas. Did you use 100 Octane (which I think is really about 93 but they used to call it 100)? Or you could try some of the additive which ups the octane.

But 40% higher in cost. Bad news.

Mölyapina 11-18-2015 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tyl604 (Post 3542376)
Interesting. What year GTO; how about a pic. I would have thought you would get a lot more performance and some higher gas mileage with non-ethanol gas. Did you use 100 Octane (which I think is really about 93 but they used to call it 100)? Or you could try some of the additive which ups the octane.

But 40% higher in cost. Bad news.

It's a 2004... in his sig.

fahrvergnugen 11-18-2015 11:49 AM

Anyone who runs gas-powered small equipment won't use E-10; 1] the manufactuers' tell you not to, 2] it eats the carb seals and fuel lines, and of course is more hygroscopic, IE it attracts more moisture out of the air.

Another problem with 'ethanated' fuels is the crap doesn't stay mixed. They put in 10% at the fuel depot, but the ethanol is lighter (IIRC) and separates. SO, hypothetically, you could get a super-dose of ethanol and be none the wiser, until it won't run.

An acquaintance in the local VW club I was in lost his Corrado due to running E10; fuel line ruptured, spray hit the exhaust, he then drove a mobile bonfire. Total loss. Our cars aren't designed for this stuff, and no one should run it in theirs if it wasn't.

Cool thing about OK? EVERY pump has a sticker on it, telling you if it has ethanol or not.

Neat link, Pure-Gas.Org!

DieselPaul 11-18-2015 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen (Post 3542434)

An acquaintance in the local VW club I was in lost his Corrado due to running E10; fuel line ruptured, spray hit the exhaust, he then drove a mobile bonfire. Total loss. Our cars aren't designed for this stuff, and no one should run it in theirs if it wasn't.

That is a serious stretch for cause and effect.

fahrvergnugen 11-18-2015 12:39 PM

I should add; he always used E10 when pure gas was available, just a bit more expensive. And the fuel lines made in '92-93 were not made to withstand ethanol. If you doubt me on that last one, do some research and convince yourself.

bsharp8256 11-18-2015 01:36 PM

I get a 2-3 mpg bump with pure gas in my S55, I can't say I noticed a difference in power. I've run ethanol gas in my Falcon ever since they quit selling the good stuff around here (probably about 5 years ago). While I would prefer to keep the corn out of my fuel system, I'm of the opinion that as long as you drive it regularly to keep the fuel fresh, you won't have any problems. No issues in any of my other gassers, either.

OM617YOTA 11-18-2015 03:46 PM

Thanks for the replies, folks.

Yes, '04 GTO in my signature.

Simpler=Better 11-18-2015 04:40 PM

Am I the only one who hasn't had trouble with E10?

All of my small engines are fine...

None of my fuel injected cars have had trouble...

I rejetted my 440cc bike for E85, slightly harder to start when chilly (couple extra turnovers) but nothing beyond that.

DieselPaul 11-18-2015 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen (Post 3542475)
I should add; he always used E10 when pure gas was available, just a bit more expensive. And the fuel lines made in '92-93 were not made to withstand ethanol. If you doubt me on that last one, do some research and convince yourself.

I'm well aware of the properties of Ethanol and how it can affect older compounds of rubber.

However to say "he put E10 in it and it immediately blew up" is scapegoating. Those lines were old, hard, and brittle long before it blew up.

I run E10 in my 190SL. No instant explosions yet.

Simpler=Better, essentially everyone in America runs E10 without trouble. I've never had any issues.

Buddy was flipping a Flex-Fuel Ford one winter, we ran E85 out of curiosity. It was a huge pain to start below freezing. Ran E85 in a flex fuel rated GLK350 in the summer and noticed no difference other than the proscribed drop in MPG.

OM617YOTA 11-18-2015 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Simpler=Better (Post 3542612)
Am I the only one who hasn't had trouble with E10?

I've had precisely one problem that might have been E10 related - a fuel tank seal on a Toro/Suzuki mower. Replaced with Viton and had no issues.

Both my gas vehicles run fine, even though I may not drive them for months at a time.

All my small engines run fine. Anything modern built is designed to handle E10, small engine or otherwise.

I do notice E10 goes bad faster. Keep fresh fuel in it and no issues at all. Hence my desire to use non-E gas in my small engines, the generators especially may sit for 10 months at a time. I still haven't had an issue, shut off the fuel or drain the tank and run it dry for storage.

I know E10 gets a bad rap, but none of it matches my experience. I even finally convinced my dad to quit using "gas line antifreeze" - just alcohol. His little bottle of wonder stuff was taking the fuel from E10 to E10.01.

Mxfrank 11-18-2015 06:41 PM

Being old enough to remember the transition from leaded gas, I find the nostalgia for regular unleaded to be very funny.

fahrvergnugen 11-18-2015 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM617YOTA (Post 3542626)
All my small engines run fine. Anything modern built is designed to handle E10, small engine or otherwise.

I rented small equipment, and sold Stihl and Husqvarna; they both Warned against using E10. I'll be surprised if you can find a manufacturer that is good with it; look at it this way, if it stayed mixed that would be fine. As it is, you can get served a higher dose of Ethanol, and it won't run worth crap.

fahrvergnugen 11-18-2015 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen (Post 3542475)
I should add; he always used E10 when pure gas was available, just a bit more expensive. And the fuel lines made in '92-93 were not made to withstand ethanol. If you doubt me on that last one, do some research and convince yourself.

You Did see this addendum, right Paul?

Mölyapina 11-18-2015 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen (Post 3542708)
You Did see this addendum, right Paul?

Seeing as that's the only portion of your post that he replied to, I would wager yes.

fahrvergnugen 11-18-2015 07:41 PM

Arguably, he replied to my first post in this thread; if he indeed only replied to the above, then I am understandably confused.

Alain V. 11-18-2015 08:10 PM

I've been a mechanic since 1981 and see the results of using e10 garbage fuel all the time on earlier gen vehicles.

People keep using that trash in their 1950s- 1980s mercs and it is job security for me.

I don't let that shyte anywhere near any of my vehicles.

OM617YOTA 11-18-2015 08:54 PM

http://m.stihlusa.com/faq/products/fuel/

fahrvergnugen 11-19-2015 07:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OM617YOTA (Post 3542761)
http://m.stihlusa.com/faq/products/fuel/

Very interesting; that's not what I remember their owners' manuals and training saying... However, you Did see all the provisions and warnings it gives, correct? ANY time you get fuel with ethanol, you have No Idea what the mixture actually is.

DieselPaul 11-19-2015 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen (Post 3542723)
Arguably, he replied to my first post in this thread; if he indeed only replied to the above, then I am understandably confused.

You advised I do some research, I advise, I've done it.

So now what you are saying is knowing the dangers of E10 your friend intentionally blew up his Corrado just to save a buck! Oh my gosh.

I'm telling you, if you're going to try to make the argument that 20+ year old rubber was entirely fine until around 10% ethanol blend hit it, I disagree.

I am intimately aware of the chemistry of rubber compounds and how some chemicals can affect them. Older compounds of rubber can certainly be broken down over time by ethanol based fuels.

However, you usually have dry rotting and cracking externally long before ethanol melts a rubber hose. If you or your friend is trying to make the argument his fire was solely resultant from E10, he is covering up for the fact that he'd probably never inspected the rubber hoses on his car.

I've run E10, literally my entire life, I've never had a rubber hose melt. I think I just crested 100 cars owned.

Pure Gas won't exist for much longer, and it's already nearly impossible to find so I hope a lot of people can come to terms with its use. Going to need to get bus passes soon otherwise.

This isn't all that dissimilar from when guys in Diesel Discussion dump Synthetic oil into a 40 year old OM615 that's never been touched and was leaking like a sieve before and notice a little more leaking, and then blame all the leaks on the oil.

Unless you've been driving at something entirely different. In that case, we should just get a beer and be confused friends.

fahrvergnugen 11-19-2015 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
So now what you are saying is knowing the dangers of E10 your friend intentionally blew up his Corrado just to save a buck! Oh my gosh.

Where did I say that? The kid was ignorant in using E10, he did it to save money, Not Realizing the Consequences. I became aware of the danger with the MTBE scare in California; Many older cars were going up in flames because it was corroding rubber hoses left and right. I saw similar experiences with E10 online, and decided long ago to not use it in my '80s VWs. It robbed power too, so what is the point?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
I'm telling you, if you're going to try to make the argument that 20+ year old rubber was entirely fine until around 10% ethanol blend hit it, I disagree.

If you read what I wrote, that's not what I said. You may have Taken that from what I wrote, but that's not my problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
I am intimately aware of the chemistry of rubber compounds and how some chemicals can affect them. Older compounds of rubber can certainly be broken down over time by ethanol based fuels.

I'm glad we can agree on something.
Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
However, you usually have dry rotting and cracking externally long before ethanol melts a rubber hose. If you or your friend is trying to make the argument his fire was solely resultant from E10, he is covering up for the fact that he'd probably never inspected the rubber hoses on his car.

A good point; did I inspect his car before this happened? Of course not. Since he was ignorant of the dangers of E10 damage, not only with the rubber, but with relation to the damage from knock and ping, I have no doubt that he probably did not carefully look over his car regularly enough. I think he was more of a 'driver' than a 'mechy type'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
I've run E10, literally my entire life, I've never had a rubber hose melt. I think I just crested 100 cars owned.

Looks like I am older than your are, and my experience is different. While I've only owned something in the high twenties, does your experience naturally trump my own? I worked at a VW dealership for 5 years, and have worked closely with and for an independent shop for 25, does that mean I shouldn't listen to what you have to say on this matter? I don't think so... Now, to the point; what age of vehicles? How long did you run them? Did you Only ever use E10? What nation of manufacture did most of them come from?

Vehicles made since flexfuel cars came on line are much more compliant to ethanol, but of course they use something other than rubber for their fuel lines, don't they?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
Pure Gas won't exist for much longer, and it's already nearly impossible to find so I hope a lot of people can come to terms with its use. Going to need to get bus passes soon otherwise.

Incorrect; there are states out there that demand pure gas, and you know as well as I do that as long as there is a demand, things won't change, UNLESS the government jumps in and does something stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
This isn't all that dissimilar from when guys in Diesel Discussion dump Synthetic oil into a 40 year old OM615 that's never been touched and was leaking like a sieve before and notice a little more leaking, and then blame all the leaks on the oil.

I'm not in that camp; as I write this, I am Hoping to kill a number of leaks soon, so that I CAN run synthetic... I'll do a mix first and see how it goes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DieselPaul (Post 3542893)
Unless you've been driving at something entirely different. In that case, we should just get a beer and be confused friends.

I'll vote for that; the first round is on me! :)

EDIT To add, I spoke to the mechanic at the store I worked at; he offered the salient point that no, they Won't turn E10 down since they would certainly risk sales. However, anyone in that business is wisely advised to avoid it, just as the warnings in that blurb you posted demonstrate.

OM617YOTA 11-19-2015 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fahrvergnugen (Post 3542866)
Very interesting; that's not what I remember their owners' manuals and training saying... However, you Did see all the provisions and warnings it gives, correct? ANY time you get fuel with ethanol, you have No Idea what the mixture actually is.

Yep, I saw the warnings. Make sure the fuel's fresh and not separated and all that, all of which I wholeheartedly agree with.............and which I've not had a single problem with.

Ethanol mix in your area might differ from tank to tank and station to station, but around here it's been consistent. Pretty sure by law it must be 10% and that such things are tracked just as carefully as all the other aspects of gasoline.

I run a Stihl year-round supplying firewood for the house. Tune by ear, so it's four stroking at WOT out of the cut and smooths out when the chain hits the wood. I haven't noticed any difference and haven't had to retune in several years despite buying two stroke gas year round. This would seem to indicate no great difference in fuels.

Idle 11-20-2015 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alain V. (Post 3542737)
I've been a mechanic since 1981 and see the results of using e10 garbage fuel all the time on earlier gen vehicles.

People keep using that trash in their 1950s- 1980s mercs and it is job security for me.

I don't let that shyte anywhere near any of my vehicles.

I remember when E10 was first used. It was in the later 80's.

Chrysler was the first to publish anything about a problem because the seals in their carbs was not made to withstand E and suddenly everyone with an older Dodge was needing their carb rebuilt.

So the oil companies went to MBTE which didn't eat up the older rubber but was found to destroy groundwater supplies.

So back to the E they went. And owners of older cars?

BEWARE! Some cars can take it and some can't.

And Mercedes don't seem to have a problem with it. And while this is just a guess on my part I think that might have to do with the worldwide market Mercedes has. Some places in the world have very low octane gas and owners juice it up with homemade brew.

This may not be common now but I have seen it with my own eyes back in the 60's. If is it carbon based it can be turned into fuel and some of it is very unfriendly to Buna-n. So Mercedes were built to take what their third world owners could throw at them.


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:14 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2018 Pelican Parts, LLC - Posts may be archived for display on the Peach Parts or Pelican Parts Website