W123 Estate biggest in its class - PeachParts Mercedes-Benz Forum

CDTurbo001 · #1 11-19-2017, 02:41 PM

Thoroughly enjoying my new 300CD, of course my curiosity is up as to practical, similar vehicles for wifey in place of the Cruze - which has been a good car, just small for a carseat and so-so on living up to the word "utilitarian". Also, the interior room and seat comfort don't hold a candle to the Benz.

Go-to is 300TD, but they're on the rare/desirable side and she prefers stick. Staying within 70's and 80's models, there are some offerings from Volvo, BMW, VW, etc. - but was the TD the biggest European wagon, sold in the US, of its day?

t walgamuth · #2 11-19-2017, 07:45 PM

I think you'll find the Volvo wagon the 245 has a load of room inside....perhaps more than the benz because of its square back end.

Mxfrank · #3 11-20-2017, 10:07 AM

The biggest, plushest Euro station wagon of the era was Peugeot 505. But tell the truth, how much of a maintenance headache do you want for a DD? A Subaru Outback will more than fill the bill, be safer and cheaper to maintain.

t walgamuth · #4 11-20-2017, 11:13 AM

Subarus have a great image in the market. Too bad the quality is not there compared to an old benz. The upholstery is thin and cheap. There are a lot of head gasket problems too. My favorite machine shop always has a few subie heads floating around.

CDTurbo001 · #5 11-20-2017, 11:52 AM

Yeah, I have 3 friends+young families with Subies, the in-laws have a '95 Legacy wagon in the fencerow, and there's an '02 Outback sitting outside my shop right now, and I'm a little skeptical if Subaru is *quite* all it's cracked up to be, over decades and a few hundred thousand miles. If you're interested in keeping one well maintained it seems the gearboxes all need fluids changed frequently, parts aren't necessarily cheap (IAC valve for the Outback is $300!!!) or readily available, head gaskets on a lot of the engines used in recent times - maybe not a worse/more expensive car to own long-term than a W123, but no better and heavier on complex repairs than straight-up maintenance the W123's need to stay solid.

Peugot? Ehhhh, not sure I want to dive THAT deep into the Euro wagon hole yet!

P.C. · #6 11-20-2017, 12:11 PM

If you want to try to maintain and operate a 35 year-old Peugeot stateside, best that you first brush up on some of the better French swear words...

t walgamuth · #7 11-20-2017, 01:16 PM

I had a pug wagon. It drove nice but getting parts for it was a nightmare. I owned it a few months and fixed some stuff then sold it and got my money back more or less. but it really drove and handled nicely.

Zulfiqar · #8 11-21-2017, 03:08 PM

owning a subaru means that you have to pull the engine someday in its life, its a right of passage to change the headgaskets.

TBH, once you get the hang of it you can pull a subaru engine quicker than any mercedes. (unless you are submarining the mercedes pull)

JB3 · #9 11-21-2017, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by t walgamuth

I think you'll find the Volvo wagon the 245 has a load of room inside....perhaps more than the benz because of its square back end.

this.

I had both at the same time for a while. The 300TD cannot compare with a 245 for wagon utility. Its good, but the 245 is far better, plus it doesn't have a finicky expensive hydraulic suspension you do not need.

the 700 series and the 900 series also had excellent cargo space.

Find your wife a 5 speed volvo 245.

CDTurbo001 · #10 11-22-2017, 08:17 AM

Probably true about the boxer four - I measured the 2.5 in the '02 Outback the other day and it's 31" wide but only 17" long. Keeps the bell housing bolts way out in the open.

Good word about the 245. I shall keep that in mind. Any known OM617 swaps into one?

t walgamuth · #11 11-22-2017, 10:32 AM

You might find one or a Volvo with the factory VW six cylinder diesel. Its slow but reliable....well as reliable as the VW diesels are.

CDTurbo001 · #12 11-22-2017, 11:53 AM

Ha. From what I can find about them on the net they weren't "pinless grenades" but not as durable as even the ubiquitous TDI's. Surely if the VW six would fit under the "bonnet", an OM617 would...

t walgamuth · #13 11-22-2017, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDTurbo001

Ha. From what I can find about them on the net they weren't "pinless grenades" but not as durable as even the ubiquitous TDI's. Surely if the VW six would fit under the "bonnet", an OM617 would...

I believe the VW engine is physically smaller than the 617, but still the 617 may fit just fine. The volvo 2.3 is ohc but the diesel may be pushrod.

JB3 · #14 11-22-2017, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CDTurbo001

Probably true about the boxer four - I measured the 2.5 in the '02 Outback the other day and it's 31" wide but only 17" long. Keeps the bell housing bolts way out in the open.

Good word about the 245. I shall keep that in mind. Any known OM617 swaps into one?

Doable, but you will have to do a lot of work for the 617 oil pan to clear the volvo engine cradle. It is in exactly the wrong position for the 617. Directly under the low oil pan, and possibly some suspension geometry issues modifying it. I encountered this issue in another (chevy chassis type) swap and went to considerable trouble to notch and rebuild the engine cradle so I could drop the engine down low enough to fit. Apart from things hitting in the wrong place and making things strong enough, there is plenty of room from what I remember. Its a long engine bay.

Honestly, the volvo red blocks are bulletproof. If you do decide to find one for the wife, just keep it stock. It will last every bit as long as the 617, and will be easier to repair.

t walgamuth · #15 11-22-2017, 02:36 PM

My dad loved those old volvos. He thought the benzes were too complicated. I'm getting more like him everyday. Maybe I'll have to start driving volvos next.